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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
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Points: 3167
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Topic: How many politicians are not scum? Posted: April 30 2012 at 08:06 |
Yea, sure, this might be quite pointless, but I'm very extremely angry about politicians recently. I can't agree with any of them. Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are decent because they at least follow principles, but they don't share most of my beliefs still. Also, something about them makes them still seem sleazy to me. I just don't trust anyone that is attempting to become so powerful.
So, to help me possibly feel better about how everything is going to crap, tell me how many politicians you think are NOT scum, list them in the comments, and tell me why. This includes non-American politicians. I want to know about more positivity in the world. I want to hear about leaders that I might actually be able to trust, because at this point I have made the decision to never vote again.
NOTE: I know my question says "American." I did not mean to keep that and I can't seem to change it.
Also, for some reason I just went through a weird bout of "poll creator's remorse." This might mean this whole question and such is stupid, and it just didnt seem that way to me. Or it could be my natural lack of social skills and anxiety that comes with the package of being a prog fan.
Edited by Smurph - April 30 2012 at 08:21
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ColonelClaypool
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 747
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 08:22 |
Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg cannot, in good conscience be classified as scum, simply due to his impeccable statesmanship in the aftermath of the July 22nd bombing and Utøya massacre.
Edited by ColonelClaypool - April 30 2012 at 08:23
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With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 08:50 |
I'm sure there are decent politicians somewhere, but I certainly don't know of any. Politics in the U.S. is almost exclusively about greed, avarice and unbridled corruption and the business of politics has shifted from public service (a century or so ago) and has become nothing more than peddling influence or about satisying one's lust for power. For the most part American politicians are soulless, morally bankrupt whores with no real regard for this country or its people.
It's worth considering that many of the actions of out 'esteemed' Congress and cabinet would be considered felonies if committed by mere mortals, but in too many cases these same politicians have rewritten the rules for those astride the throne.
- insider trading would land all of us in prison but is virtually unrestricted for congressman and even most normal disclosure rules don't apply to them)
- OSHA, workplace health and safety rules passed years ago by Congress, but they exempted themselves from having to abide by these laws.
- Sarbanes-Oxley, a bill passed by Congress specifically to ensure transparency in corporate governance, but it does not apply to government, political parties or to politicians themselves.
...<add your own egregious example of government hubrus and arrogance here>...
In many states the situation is the same, often combined with local politicians and public servants haveing a hand or two inside the public till.
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 09:05 |
I would say most of the ones you've never heard of are probably okay - they're probably somewhat "normal" and "average" as far as it is possible for someone with the necessary funding to be a politician to be "normal" and "average" to enter into public service with no thought of personal reward or gain, and to do that you have to align yourself to a particular political party which is neither "normal" or "average" unless you really truly believe that one single ideology really can solve all the worlds ails when it demonstrably has failed to do that for decades, if not centuries. But on the face of it the last person I'd trust to be a politician is anyone who actually wanted to be a politician.
Are those normal, average, well-funded, but unltimately not as altruistic as one would hope while being politically biased and ideologically failed people scum?... No, I don't think so.
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What?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 09:14 |
I voted none by mistake. I meant that none are scum.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
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Points: 17110
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 09:41 |
Many are decent people doing their best. The whole "all pols are pure evil" is yet another tired cliche bandied around as truth by too many. That said, some are pretty poor.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 09:54 |
^You can be scum without being pure evil. Webster's defines scum (in this context) as "a low, vile, or worthless person or group of people". All but a few US politicians (on the national level) fit, at least, the worthless part of that definition.
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Time always wins.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17955
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:00 |
As much as DC would not like to hear this.........Feces does flow from the top down.
The inside information they are allowed to use to better their ownself is beyond un-ethical. How does someone running for a position that pays $150K a yr for a 4-6 yr stint, walk out a millionaire?
Scum
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:02 |
Finnforest wrote:
Many are decent people doing their best. The whole "all pols are pure evil" is yet another tired cliche bandied around as truth by too many. That said, some are pretty poor. |
I don't believe you. I know some of them are trying to do a good job, but to get elected in the first place, at least in America, you HAVE to affiliate yourself with a party. This party alone influences your decisions and they will do everything in their power to make sure you get replaced if you affiliate yourself with them and then not work on their "team." Eventually all the good ones get replaced.
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:08 |
Also, every single member of each party normally endorses their party's candidate for president. The 2 main party's candidates are ALWAYS pieces of poop. If any of these politicians had any intelligence and actually wanted real change, they would endorse independent candidates to bring attention views that aren't backed by corporations. Contrary to what the news tells us, there ARE more than 2 sides to every argument. Anyone with REAL financial backing cannot be trusted. None of them ever bring up 'outside the box' ideas. They stick to what their party tells them or what their backers tell them.
Edited by Smurph - April 30 2012 at 10:10
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Vompatti
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Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
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Points: 67441
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:11 |
As far as I know there are no communist politicians in America, so the answer is obviously none.
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:20 |
Vompatti wrote:
As far as I know there are no communist politicians in America, so the answer is obviously none. |
Communism is just a screwed up as capitalism. It assumes that the people in power won't take advantage. THEY ALWAYS TAKE ADVANTAGE.
Communism would work amazingly in small groups. It cannot work for entire countries. Socialism is supposedly the pathway to Communism but somehow it never gets there.
Show me an example of communism working without people getting taken advantage of. Unless you can, anything you say to me won't convince me.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:45 |
Smurph wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
As far as I know there are no communist politicians in America, so the answer is obviously none. |
Communism is just a screwed up as capitalism. It assumes that the people in power won't take advantage. THEY ALWAYS TAKE ADVANTAGE.
Communism would work amazingly in small groups. It cannot work for entire countries. Socialism is supposedly the pathway to Communism but somehow it never gets there.
Show me an example of communism working without people getting taken advantage of. Unless you can, anything you say to me won't convince me. |
You're mistaking "people getting taken advantage of" and "people getting educated because of their reactionary tendancies". Comrade Mao would disapprove.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
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Points: 67441
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:46 |
Smurph wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
As far as I know there are no communist politicians in America, so the answer is obviously none. |
Communism is just a screwed up as capitalism. It assumes that the people in power won't take advantage. THEY ALWAYS TAKE ADVANTAGE.
Communism would work amazingly in small groups. It cannot work for entire countries. Socialism is supposedly the pathway to Communism but somehow it never gets there.
Show me an example of communism working without people getting taken advantage of. Unless you can, anything you say to me won't convince me. |
Obviously there shouldn't be any people in power. As you said, it would work in small groups, and it would work for entire countries as well if countries were such small groups.
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smartpatrol
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2012
Location: My Bedroom
Status: Offline
Points: 14169
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 10:56 |
Well, it depends. Can they be dead? If so, there's Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincon, but if not then theres really just George W Bush, George HW Bush, and Ronald Regan. And, I know, I seem like a crazy republican, but I'm not as conservative as I seem
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 11:47 |
The question says American politicians
I've met 3 or 4 Canadian ones that aren't scum, but that's it
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 14:04 |
All politicians are saints. Just kidding I voted NONE
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 14:36 |
Probably hundreds of them.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 20:56 |
Politicians include everyone from the POTUS to the guy who runs the water sanitation district in a small town. Some of those little guys are massively corrupt, but alot of them are just trying to keep their neighborhood going.
Major politicians all have to make compromises and concessions that taint them in order to maintain their positions. But some still are trying to do their best.
For instance, I think Jesse Ventura was genuinely trying to do good for the state of Minnesota as governor. He was just completely incompetent to do the job.
I actually also think George W. Bush was trying to do what he thought was right. I cannot say the same for some of his top advisors. I also happen to disagree with many of W's opinions on what was good for the country.
I also think Bill Clinton was a corrupt pile of feces, corroborated by some now middle aged women, acquantances, who lived in Arkansas when he was governor. But he was very very smart and most of his causes are more in line with mine than those other two guys.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65513
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Posted: April 30 2012 at 21:53 |
I don't think Dubya was scum. I do think he had the worst judgment of any president in my lifetime including Richard Nixon and drank at the most inopportune times, but he wasn't scum.
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