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KarmaMan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wish They Weren't Here
    Posted: July 05 2011 at 19:20
You know, many of the so called 'prog related' Artists.
It can be galling to read clueless reviews and ratings by some Italian prog fanof Albums  that have little or no 'prog' content yet you'd rather listen to them then 90+ % of the generic stuff on this site, make that 99.9% of Italian prog.
 
I know it goes with the territory of having them included in the first place but people like Bowie and Kate Bush I'd love to see removed for starters, they deserve better. I'd rather see a listing of recommended 'proggish' albums by non 'progressive' artists.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 19:25
Radiohead. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 19:28
Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Radiohead. 

huh?

Are you implying they are not progressive?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 19:32
Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:

Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Radiohead. 

huh?

Are you implying they are not progressive?

Being an alternative rock band that makes an IDM record does not a progressive band make.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 20:19
Boo hoo.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 20:34
Why so negative? Confused Just listen to what you like, because it's here doesn't mean you have to listen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 20:42
Nightwish is the only addition I find highly questionable and not surprisingly even the PM team more or less excuses itself from defending it.  The rest may be CONTROVERSIAL, but there's at least some artsiness/progginess/innovation or what have you in all the names mentioned above or other favourite punching bags like Metallica.  If you really want to get into what is 'objectively' prog rock - if at all, such can be established with a semblance of a consensus - the database would drastically shrink and what would be the point of that?
 
 
EDIT: The idea of listing just the prog albums of generally non prog artists (or for that matter the prog albums of artists who went pop Tongue) is a good one but thought to be infeasible.  Further, I don't think it would make the slightest difference to those reviews which you seem to allude to.


Edited by rogerthat - July 05 2011 at 21:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 20:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Nightwish is the only addition I find highly questionable and not surprisingly even the PM team more or less excuses itself from defending it.  The rest may be CONTROVERSIAL, but there's at least some artsiness/progginess/innovation or what have you in all the names mentioned above or other favourite punching bags like Metallica.  If you really want to get into what is 'objectively' prog rock - if at all, such can be established with a semblance of a consensus - the database would drastically shrink and what would be the point of that?


That's a good point, I'd hate to see the Archives shrink. I like a lot of musical styles and when I'm not in the mood for something which might be called 'straight prog' (if such a thing exists) I come here and investigate all the related artists/genres.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 22:05
A lot of power metal bands, a lot of folk bands and Radiohead.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 22:22
What is Prog anyway ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2011 at 22:27
I find myself more taking issue with non-prog output by prog artists. For example, Miles Davis is quite possibly the most important single figure of the Fusion movement. And Kind of Blue is one of the greatest albums ever made. But as it stands now, Kind of Blue is ranked as the third best jazz/rock album and the 32nd greatest progressive rock album of all time. Which just seems weird.

It also seems a little unfair to submit albums like We Can't Dance and IT to the ravages of prog fans. I guess it's our chance to make up for all the rave reviews in the mainstream media, but you've got to admit that had the exact same songs been written and performed by someone other than Genesis, they wouldn't be on here.

I don't know. This post isn't really constructive because I haven't got any better ideas and the current system seems to be better than drawing an arbitrary line as to which of a band's discography to admit and which to remove. I'm just ranting, I suppose.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 01:27
While there are a large number or artists I am surprised to see here, most of them are listed under categories like prog related and proto prog.  As part of the purpose of this site is to represent artists who have produced prog and related music, I understand the rationale for including complete discographies.  And yes, it does get weird with some of those mentioned above.  The important thing, of course, is to make your own judgments and conclusions on individual albums and artists.  I have those I favor and those I dislike.  I will not name them now, but when the spirit moves me to write a review, my views will be my own and they will be expressed, positive or negative, or as is usually the case, some mixture between the two.  This is a mighty diverse community, and even though I may disagree with some views and tastes, I am glad to see them expressed - it helps me clarify and understand why I like something or not.  We are united in our appreciation for Prog (To all who ask what is it, remember that this site explains its criteria and perspectives.) as we are diverse in what aspects of it we appreciate the most.  Handshake
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 01:45
Originally posted by KingCrimson250 KingCrimson250 wrote:

I don't know. This post isn't really constructive because I haven't got any better ideas and the current system seems to be better than drawing an arbitrary line as to which of a band's discography to admit and which to remove. I'm just ranting, I suppose.
 
Actually the current system admits the entire discography. But where the artist is not already widely accepted as prog,  they seem to demand a certain amount of prog (i.e. more than one album) to include in the database. 


Edited by rogerthat - July 06 2011 at 01:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 01:51
Queen and Led Zeppelin
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 02:12
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Queen and Led Zeppelin

LOL

Wait. You are kiddin' right?  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 03:31
In my own collection I've categorised albums very similarly to what they are here on PA but also a little differently. I love Black Sabbath and Deep Purple but to no extent would I put them under my prog folder. They sleep very happily under my Hard Rock category. Metallica exists (although I don't know why I still have any of their work) in my Metal section as does Iron Maiden.
Nightwish, Within Temptation rest firmly under my own prog section because I firmly believe that they are progressive in nature - many here don't agree with that but it's my own belief.  Kamelot kind of confuses me though as I don't agree that they are progressive.
 
Why John Miles isn't here, when his "Music" is one of the real prog classics, I don't understand.
Why Stratovarius isn't here I understand even less.
 
 I do agree that Bowie should be represented here, Kate Bush?  - No.
 
However, it's all about taste and ones own personal interpretation of music. Without that personal interpretation we wouldn't have a vastly interesting and enjoyable world. 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 04:37
What's the beef with Italian prog in the OP??

I don't have any major objections to the listings in the archives. There are times when I feel that if artist A is listed here, then artist B should be too, but generally I think the categories are well defined, and their listings mostly appropriate.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 05:17

 

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

What's the beef with Italian prog in the OP??

I don't know/care much about RPI, unless it's to start a fight with people about it being a real subgenre ;-), but I saw someone post here (it may have been Raff? I'm too lazy to try to find it with the search because it was a long time ago and she's not here to object to my misattribution anyway) that bands known in Italy primarily as pure AOR are included in RPI, but people on PA don't object like we do to some of the controversial additions because we've never heard of them. I guess he's referring to people giving good reviews to those AOR albums. 



Edited by Henry Plainview - July 06 2011 at 05:17
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 06:33
To the original poster:
"No musical genre exists in a vacuum. Not all of the bands that have been a part of the history and development of progressive rock are necessarily progressive rock bands themselves. This is why progarchives has included a genre called prog-related, so we could include all the bands that complete the history of progressive rock, whether or not they were considered full-fledged progressive rock bands themselves."

If you people don't see the prog in Radiohead, David Bowie, and/or Kate Bush, etc. that is just your own shortsightedness.  They're here and they're not going away.  No well known controversial artist has been added without a vigorous debate.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2011 at 06:45
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

What's the beef with Italian prog in the OP??

I don't know/care much about RPI, unless it's to start a fight with people about it being a real subgenre ;-), but I saw someone post here (it may have been Raff? I'm too lazy to try to find it with the search because it was a long time ago and she's not here to object to my misattribution anyway) that bands known in Italy primarily as pure AOR are included in RPI, but people on PA don't object like we do to some of the controversial additions because we've never heard of them. I guess he's referring to people giving good reviews to those AOR albums. 

 
 
Shocked
 
I'd heard about this before in some rather half-spoken words, but never cared to check it out either... the same can be said about many borderline inclusions in every genre though, not specifically with RPI.
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