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Arteum View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to compose progressive music
    Posted: June 12 2005 at 21:25

How does one write progressive music? Should a band of musicians experiement for hours until they find the right melody/sound? Or is it that one musician hears the progressive music in his head before playing it? Is it possible to compose progressive music just playing one instrument? I think I can compose some "classical" paino pieces playing piano alone ... but it does not sound "progressive" nor does my head tend to think "progressive" without bass and rhythm ... Are there any general recommendations? Any useful links, interviews?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2005 at 21:38
Do something that has never been done before.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2005 at 21:54
I think it takes a group effort to create appropriately Progressive music. Every musician has a different approach to the music he/she plays, so if you add elements from each person and then go with an approach not yet covered, progressive music can be achieved.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:04
When a band purposely sits down and tries to "make" their song sound progressive - its gonna sound like crap. (alot of bands do this that I'd rather not mention)

Progressive is not a genre, but I view it as a new 'level' music can achieve. Its something that comes naturally through experience of the entire band. One intrument alone cannot be "progressive" no matter how technical it gets, its how the whole band comes togethor to achieve this higher level of music. It takes time.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2005 at 22:16
Sit down at your piano and play whatever comes into your head for 23 min. 42 sec....Divide your one long song into Twelve parts. Its a good idea to title the opening piece "Introduction" or"Prologue". Make sure you include song titles such as "The Return of...", "The Resurrection of", etc. Also, at least 3 minutes of your Suite must be dissonant and utterly annoying. End your Suite with "Epilogue", and there you got it.
LISTEN!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2005 at 23:41
If there were set rules regarding how to compose progressive music, it wouldn't be progressive anymore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 02:50

Arteum. Do all prog song writers play 4-5 intruments? don't think so... And most of the time, one person writes the majority of the song. Prog writing is not different of writing "other genres". It just needs more time to be achieved, because of its complexity and technicality, and needs a long group effort to be finalized.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 02:54

It depends, each band has thei own style, for example early Genesis was mostly a work by Gabriel in lyrics and Banks in Music, the rest of the band added their own ideas and the whole band  worked with the arrangements,in Jethro Tull Ian Anderson does 90% of the work.

What works for one doesn't necesarilly works fo the rest.

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 08:12
"Do something that has never been done before.".......then you will have done something really innovative. Like maybe some sort of new "Punk Rap", of coarse that wouldn't be progressive though, although some people on this site might consider it progressive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 08:28
Kerry Minnear from GENTLE GIANT played all the songs only on the piano. Afterwards the band joined in the rehearsals and added sound and ideas. You can hear it on "Under construction" a double CD . Very interesting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 12:48
I have written two albums myself, of which are both just experiments with how to record and get used to the software I used. However, I have learned a great deal in how to approach writing, composing, and recording and what works for me.

I work in a very linear fashion, so , I come up with a the underlying tones, chords, arpeggios, etc. and then work my way up from whatever I hear in my head. I only have at my disposable 2 electric guitars, one classical guitar, and one stage piano (which includes string ensemble, vibraphone, harpischord etc.).

Basically, I come up with one part at a time, work with it, than add more and more to give a richer sound and to continue the piece and movements. I also never have a rough set time I shoot for in terms of track length, but instead I go with what I feel the piece needs to bring and only when that idea is finished musically, do I end the piece.

A bit longwinded, but I hope it was enlightening for you.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 13:00
Each composer has a very different way to compose. Personally, the main 2 ways I'll come up with something is either in my head or on an instrument. I then "jam" with it ona piano or bass or guitar or something for a while to get it to just the way I like it, then I'll write it out. From there, I decide if it sounds like a song a "rock" band would play or something that would be more suited to a symphony, string quartet, etc.

If it fits the "rock band" category, then I'll introduce the riffs to my bandmates and we'll all contribute ideas. As I am the main composer for my band, it is then generally up to me to take all the parts we have jointly composed and arrange them out in a way that fits the music and other such arrangement aspects. Over the next few weeks we'll practice the piece, but in a loose format so that any new ideas we add can be incorporated. After a while we'll all start to play it about the same way everytime (not for lack of ideas, just because thats how we decide it goes best) and I'll finalize the piece.

Granted, it's not always me that comes up with the original idea, but I am the one to orchestrate and compose from there on out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 20:05
Do whatever you feel.  Don't even think about anything else. That's the music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 22:00

Trial and error really. Just play around (with others helps) and you'll find something. Or if you have the software, you can create music on your computer. It's fun and effective.

But in truth there is no one formula. Things work differently for different people.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 23:31

Creating music that is "progressive" requires ideas; asthetic and musical ones. You cannot judge a progressive theme(melody)from a non-progressive one, nor any use of musical material at all for that fact. Its about creating art, this is why bands like Yes can sound like a 70s rock band and be progressive they had ideas that required progression, they just didn't sit down one day and say "hey lets write long pretentious music that follows Sonata Form" their muscal ideas sometimes required more or less from them(and their still great rock music)

   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 23:38

Originally posted by jojim jojim wrote:

Kerry Minnear from GENTLE GIANT played all the songs only on the piano. Afterwards the band joined in the rehearsals and added sound and ideas. You can hear it on "Under construction" a double CD . Very interesting.

Agree

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 02:55
I think it is just spontaious. I mean, you sure have to have some background concerning, not just, knowldedge of music, but also a special image of the world. This last point is essential in all art creation. You create what you see and what you feel, and because of that it is possible to achieve diffrent structures. So when you visualize the world in a specific way, the whole prosses of creation flows, and comes out naturally. And indeed, you have to choose the right people to play with, i think if you dont have a certian level of understanding within your band mates, prog rock will never happend. i think it is for its natural complexity that prog cannot be done if there is no special chemestry. For me those things would be like the basic "rules" to make progressive music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 06:55
Originally posted by TheWebernBullet TheWebernBullet wrote:

Creating music that is "progressive" requires ideas; asthetic and musical ones. You cannot judge a progressive theme(melody)from a non-progressive one, nor any use of musical material at all for that fact. Its about creating art, this is why bands like Yes can sound like a 70s rock band and be progressive they had ideas that required progression, they just didn't sit down one day and say "hey lets write long pretentious music that follows Sonata Form" their muscal ideas sometimes required more or less from them(and their still great rock music)

   

Tales From Topographic Oceans is a good example of how Yes, or rather Anderson & Howe did sit down and say 'Lets write some long pretentious tracks' or words to that effect. Whatever processes Yes employed before to write songs had been partially abandonned for this album, so that a chapter of music could be composed to fit on a side of vinyl. One Wakemens gripes about the album. Song writing as a band must be a complicated process for a prog band IMO, I guess thats why so much work comes out of jam sessions.

Jam sessions prove very fruitful. I bet most work starts with one or a few separate guitar or keyboard riffs and/or a vague idea for some lyrics

Los Endos, by Genesis is a good example of a track that came out of a jam session. A lot of what Genesis and Rush wrote came out of jam sessions either in the studio or during sound checks on tour.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 08:41

Originally posted by Arteum Arteum wrote:

How does one write progressive music?

 

Maybe you could get tips and hints by checking out interviews, gear lists etc.

But the only way I think is to have it in you and/or go learning your fav. instrument for some 2-3 years and under that period you go jamming with a band more than once a week, as often as possible, it also have to be fun or else you'll learn nothing.

One step at a time, don't think that you'll be famous tomorrow...

It's you that have to be creative and lead the instrument to the right path...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 09:40

I think the original wave of progressive bands (Crimson, Genesis, Yes, ELP, Tull, Buck's Fizz, etc) set out with a genuine desire to extend the rock format by incorporating other genres (eg. Classical & Jazz) into their sound. In addition, I believe Krauthead has a point in that the equipment they used also contributed to the spirit of innovation as without such things like mellotrons, multi-track recorders and the then cutting edge effects units (echoplex's, flanger's and phasers) I don't think half of the music in the heads of the artists at the time would have been translated onto tape.

Socially, the late 60's were a time of cultural change and I'm sure the times in which these guys and girls lived also contributed to the pioneer spirit that gave us such revolutionary items as, 'In the Court Of The Crimson King' and flared trousers.






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