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JLocke View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Death
    Posted: October 11 2010 at 15:09
You know, for years I never payed the concept of death much mind at all. I mean after all, when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. However, over the past few months, whenever I'm at that stage between being asleep and being awake, I have found myself becoming very contemplative over the subject. Firstly, there's the mortality issue. Each and every one of us will be dead in less than a hundred years, there's almost no doubt about it. What will we miss out on after we are gone? What greater discoveries will scientists make? What wonderful works of art will the world be gifted with? Will mankind continue to grow and flourish, or will we eventually go extinct like so many species before us?

The fact that we all have a very limited window of time to experience the world is partly relieving and partly depressing. Think of how much more we could do with our lives if death did not put a number on our years? But at the same time, the concept of living forever and ever without end can be equally as scary and/or maddening to think about, because eventually life would most likely stop having meaning altogether. I mean, if all you have is time, why savor it? So there are two sides to this coin.

But back to death itself: does dying hurt? How will we go? When will we go? Nobody knows. So death becomes more than just a sad reminder of our limited time here; it also becomes something of an unsolvable mystery. Certainly, modern medical sciences have helped expand the average lifespan a fair bit by giving us remedies against most of the common diseases and viruses that once had no cure. But beyond that, we still have an expiration date. But nobody knows their own expiration date, which makes life all the more exciting, I suppose. 

My biggest worry, however, is will I have enough time? I'm an ambitious fellow with a lot of ideas. Will I have all the time I need to do everything I want in life, or will I be one of those folks who dreams more than does, and ends up dying with only a fraction of his life wishes fulfilled? Now you guys know the type of stuff I think about in the wee hours of the night. LOL

So, let's all discuss this. Do you see death as more a positive than a negative? Or the other way around? And give reasons for either stance you end up taking, as I am curious to know what the other fellows here think about all of this and hopw they may cope with the potentially depressing prospect of having  a limited run on this earth.


p.s. This isn't a religious discussion, so please don't make it one. For the purposes of this question, take into account the only life you know for a fact that you will have; the one here on earth. I really don't want this to turn into another heated debate about theism. Thanks in advance. Wink


Edited by JLocke - October 11 2010 at 15:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 15:54

Your request that this not become a religious discussion is understandable for many people they are not able to discuss the topic without getting into theism and eschatology. Religion's main draw is the reassurance of immortality in the afterlife and it is how a lot of people cope with death.

 
I have a theory, and it is a total bullsh*t madeup non-scientific one, that upon death you become entirely mind with no body and thus enter a pure dream state as a sort of "afterlife". A good person or a child might would imagine all sorts of pleasant experiences as this is what their mind is filled with, and this is your heaven, whereas the evil/cruel/nasty person would experience nasty things and this is your hell. So basically whatever your mind/soul is full of is what you experience after death, you get what you deserve. Sounds nice but who would know if it's anything resembling true. There's the problem of say, abused people whose minds are full of horrible stuff though they were not bad people, but ah well.
 
Death is a funny one. It's the fundamentally most important aspect of life but we can't talk about it and never will be able to because it is impossible to witness/experience and talk about. I know there are people who "came back" during surgery and such but they obviously didn't *really* die and their experiences are not reliable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:16
^ Good point, there.

It's very odd for me to think about death as much as I have as of late, especially since I'm still so young, and yet, here it is all around us all the time. It's the giant elephant in the room that nobody is really able to fully wrap their heads around because, as you said, it's not really anything one can accurately simulate and then come back from. 

Glad somebody finally posted some sort of response in here. I was worried I had struck a nerve that nobody wanted to address, haha. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:32
I don't fret about it too much, but like you I have a lot I want to accomplish and I sometimes worry that I will not have time to do it all. On the other hand, I am quite looking forward to old age so that I can have an excuse to be crotchety and mean to children.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:33
One of the final stages of proper psychological development is when, at old age, one comes to accept death. 

I've not reach that stage yet. For now, I'll try to enjoy life which is too great. One day I'll start thinking about death. Not yet. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:35
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

One of the final stages of proper psychological development is when, at old age, one comes to accept death. 

I've not reach that stage yet. For now, I'll try to enjoy life which is too great. One day I'll start thinking about death. Not yet. 

By far the best answer given yet, Teo. Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:35
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

I don't fret about it too much, but like you I have a lot I want to accomplish and I sometimes worry that I will not have time to do it all. On the other hand, I am quite looking forward to old age so that I can have an excuse to be crotchety and mean to children.

LOL Brilliant. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:56
Great topic and I will come back to it because right now I do not have the time......................I have to attend a funeral.
 
Weird seeing this thread as I am about to sign offConfused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:20
Death-it frightens me to no end-i cannot accept the idea that when it happens, a person survives as some kind of bodiless spirit, and lives eternally-that does not make any sense at all, and is just wish fulfillment
           Death is what it is-though it scares me, i am perfectly capable of seeing it for what it is-a complete loss of conciousness that is irreversible and permanent-your body is totally lifeless and rots
             some people believe that we get our bodies back-nonsense, and more wish fulfillment
           it is not that i am bitter about the whole thing, i have had alot of great experiences in life, and alot of very painfull ones, and my time will come, and these things are true of anybody-i am in a kind of fear combined with acceptance of the inevitable, and i do not really blame myself for this

            


Edited by presdoug - October 11 2010 at 17:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:32
I constantly think about death and think doing so makes you live a better life.
 
Pretty consistently, people who live worthless, idiotic lives, seem to be unaware of death.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:35
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

I constantly think about death and think doing so makes you live a better life.
 
Pretty consistently, people who live worthless, idiotic lives, seem to be unaware of death.
You said things in a really neat, thoughtfull kind of way! Thank you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:42
I stopped caring on 2/27/10. I was in Chile and was woken up by the 8.8 quake that struck there. I went outside and it was nothing but darkness and rubble. I was among total strangers and cut off from everyone I knew. During those first few hours, while everyone was panicking, I simply stopped caring about life and accepted death as a welcome inevitability. All the rubbish that happens between birth and death is an inconvenience you never asked for anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:46
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

I constantly think about death and think doing so makes you live a better life.
 

Pretty consistently, people who live worthless, idiotic lives, seem to be unaware of death.
Define worthless, idiotic life oh enlightened one
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:47
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

I don't fret about it too much, but like you I have a lot I want to accomplish and I sometimes worry that I will not have time to do it all. On the other hand, I am quite looking forward to old age so that I can have an excuse to be crotchety and mean to children.

LOL Brilliant. 

And of course use the phrase "you kids get the hell off my lawn".  I don't believe in afterlife, but I'm not afraid of it as long as it's not horribly painful and I go out on my own terms.  I think Zappa had the best idea: I wanna be dead in bed.

Now as far as life goes before I bite the big one as long as I have a little fun, make a few people laugh, have lots of sex, I will die happy.

And, oh yeah, review more albums here than Sean Trane, but that's not working out too well for me now.



Edited by Slartibartfast - October 11 2010 at 17:54
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:22
I, too, often think about death. Mostly what will it be like after I'm dead. I'm not too concerned how I go. I mean I would like it to be spectacular and awesome, but I would also be just as happy to die in my sleep.
 
There are mainly two worries I have here. One is the same as the OP. What will happen after I'm gone on Earth? What will happen to the people I know? What music will be created? What major events will I miss out on? Etc etc. I'm a bit torn here. Lets say I'm dead. Will I really be able to care? If there is an afterlife wouldn't I have better things to do? Wouldn't I have more answers in that state? And if there isn't an afterlife, I'm dead and can I really care at that point? I would say no. In that aspect just being dead after dying is a bit comforting.
 
Then there is worry number two. Lets say there is no afterlife. What will it be like? Will it just be a big void like it was before we were born? So much happened on Earth before I came to be, and to be in the state for all of eternity frieghtens the hell out of me. Being nothing...forever. *Shivers* That I can not handle at this point. Thats why I like the idea of an afterlife. Tongue
 
 
Perhaps a side question to add...what kind of people think about this? I mean really think about this. Not someone who realizes we will all be dead and thats the end of it. Like Teo said above, he doesn't think about it. What makes his life/experiences/whatever you want to call it so different that he doesn't think about it? (This isn't to call you out T, I'm just using you as an example. Tongue) To some degree I would think most people in the 16-25 age group think about such things at some point. Obviously you older folk nearer the classic death age would think about it. Idk...perhaps this question is bullshi* and ignorable.
 
Point is...death sucks...let me live forever!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:37
I almost drowned once as a kid (lost consciousness and all, had to be reanimated) and I know I don't want to go like that. I'd rather not die in too much pain too. That about limits my worries about death in itself. I don't know what's on the other side, and I'm not going to find out before I do die, so who cares? I can only enjoy my life and live it as best as a can.

I think I'm more worried about dying of old age, alone, single or widowed, or after having had a long or debilitating disease. That would totally suck the pleasure out of the last years of my life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:49
^ You know, it's odd you mention that. I almost drowned as a kid, also. But I remember being at peace as it was happening. ''At least I'll be in heaven,'' I remember thinking to myself. LOL

Oh, whoops, almost broke my own rule, there. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:49
When I got home from work today, the old guy next door was sitting in his front yard.  He's in his 80s and has lived alone there since his wife passed 4 years ago.  He has never gotten over it.  They were soul mates.  He has no family left, and only one daughter who never visits.  So he is there alone all the time.  Today was a nice day and he was sitting out front. 

So instead of going inside my house I walked over to say Hi for a few minutes.  We chatted about yard work for a minute and then he inevitably gets to talking about her, and he starts to cry.  He still is on the verge of tears constantly, 4 years later.  Almost every time we talk he cries.

Today he told me the story of what happened in their final hours.  I don't know why he told me, but he wanted to, so I don't mind, I just listen.  She was walking to the car and collapsed.  (It was a stroke).  They took her to the hospital and she was barely conscious.  That night he was alone in the room with her when the Doctor came in.  Breaking the ice, the Doc says to him (my neighbor), "So, I hear you two have been married for 55 years!  That is really something!  How'd you manage that?"  

Before he could answer the Doc, she pipes up from her semi-conscious state, and without opening her eyes, "I scratch his back and he scratches mine."     Those were her last words. 




I don't think about death too much nor do I care to, and I disagree with Textbook's snarky comment that this means life is idiotic or worthless--not sure what compels such nonsense.   But anyway, I think at some point in middle age you just come to realize that chasing "happiness" is ultimately less fulfilling than learning contentment with what and who you have around you.  The precious moments of life are the little unheralded ones shared between people who love each other.  My neighbor reminds me often that it is the little, unremarkable things that are important and so missed.  Getting up together, sharing a coffee, laughing together.  I can only imagine what it must be like to lose that person after 5 or 6 decades. 

I think the luckiest people around are probably those who die before their partner does.  Almost every time I see neighbor he tells me he wants to die.  He's ready to die.  Life is only good until its not.  Then it sucks.  Enjoy your good days folks.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:57
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

When I got home from work today, the old guy next door was sitting in his front yard.  He's in his 80s and has lived alone there since his wife passed 4 years ago.  He has never gotten over it.  They were soul mates.  He has no family left, and only one daughter who never visits.  So he is there alone all the time.  Today was a nice day and he was sitting out front. 

So instead of going inside my house I walked over to say Hi for a few minutes.  We chatted about yard work for a minute and then he inevitably gets to talking about her, and he starts to cry.  He still is on the verge of tears constantly, 4 years later.  Almost every time we talk he cries.

Today he told me the story of what happened in their final hours.  I don't know why he told me, but he wanted to, so I don't mind, I just listen.  She was walking to the car and collapsed.  (It was a stroke).  They took her to the hospital and she was barely conscious.  That night he was alone in the room with her when the Doctor came in.  Breaking the ice, the Doc says to him (my neighbor), "So, I hear you two have been married for 55 years!  That is really something!  How'd you manage that?"  

Before he could answer the Doc, she pipes up from her semi-conscious state, and without opening her eyes, "I scratch his back and he scratches mine."     Those were her last words. 




I don't think about death too much nor do I care to, and I disagree with Textbook's snarky comment that this means life is idiotic or worthless--not sure what compels such nonsense.   But anyway, I think at some point in middle age you just come to realize that chasing "happiness" is ultimately less fulfilling than learning contentment with what and who you have around you.  The precious moments of life are the little unheralded ones shared between people who love each other.  My neighbor reminds me often that it is the little, unremarkable things that are important and so missed.  Getting up together, sharing a coffee, laughing together.  I can only imagine what it must be like to lose that person after 5 or 6 decades. 

I think the luckiest people around are probably those who die before their partner does.  Almost every time I see neighbor he tells me he wants to die.  He's ready to die.  Life is only good until its not.  Then it sucks.  Enjoy your good days folks.   

Not to belittle that story, as I found it wholly interesting, it seems to me your neighbor has forgotten what life is about. I'm not saying the loss of a life partner (I don't believe in the 'soul mates' malarky, myself. No offense) wouldn't be a terrible blow to one's happiness, but when you rely that much on another human being for a meaning in life, you miss out on living life for yourself as well. That's my opinion, anyway.

Though it would be foolish of me to say I don't think companionship enhances our lives. Of course it does. I just think being happy on your own first is vital. Maybe one day when I truly feel content-as-hell with my life exactly as it is, like you said, I won't worry as much about how much time I have left. I guess I've just only recently come to realize how very real mortality is, and it gets me to thinking. 

Thanks for sharing that story about your neighbor. I feel badly for him, but I wish he would try to enjoy what life he has left like you know his wife would have wanted him to. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2010 at 19:02
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

^ You know, it's odd you mention that. I almost drowned as a kid, also. But I remember being at peace as it was happening. ''At least I'll be in heaven,'' I remember thinking to myself. LOL

Oh, whoops, almost broke my own rule, there. 


All right, I do remember a few seconds, after I'd stop fighting for my life or before I lost consciousness or something (an older cousin jumped in to rescue me at some point) looking up at the sunlight through the water, and I guess that was a peaceful moment too. There was a lot of beauty there, in that image.

It's really the moment of gasping for air that I'd like to avoid. Although there's probably no escaping it, no matter how you go.
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