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Laridar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: mp3 downloads | argument for the industry
    Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:39

The once all powerful music industry is in shambles. The RIAA is trying desperately to bail out the sinking ship with a small teaspoon, hoping that if they make an example out of a little bit of the water, the rest will follow. And it isn’t working. MP3 downloads are on the rise, and most of it isn’t legal. Oh sure, there are a few companies that are riding a wave of consumer guilt, Apple, Amazon, and Emusic, to name a few. But for the most part the average twelve year old finds it much easier to download a copy of lime wire and get an MP3 download than it is to convince a parent that they should give out their credit card to download something legally. This problem is just creating a generation of freeloaders, and as the funds from the honest people slowly starts to dry up, the music industry will start to shrivel like a grape left out in the sun. Artists will no longer be able to afford the recording studios they once used, and the complex and expensive equipment will be out of reach for even the moderately successful artists. If you don’t think this will affect the quality of music, then you haven’t listened to the difference between complex and simple music studios of late. Listen to any top release of late, and you’ll notice that it is perfect. Or so close to perfect only the artist would know the difference between perfection and imperfection. This isn’t because the artist quality has been improving, artists and performers have been around for thousands of years, there hasn’t been a sudden jump in performer quality…


No, the perfect sound comes from the studio magic that could only be funded by the music industry that everyone seems to abhor. Yes, perhaps there are quite a few greedy tycoons who are making billions off of the exploits of a band that gets paid little to nothing. But at least that band gets to perform and live the lifestyle of a rock star right? If they didn’t have the music industry, their music wouldn’t sound incredibly good (on the album), and they most likely wouldn’t have very good tours because they’d have to pay their own way to the venue they would play at. Then what would become of the music industry? People need to start paying for their MP3 downloads, or the very music culture we love is going to collapse. Say what you will about the industry’s corruption and greed, without it, there would be very little culture at all. This is going to happen eventually if we don’t start buying our MP3 downloads, and all it takes is a little extra money a month to pay for it. We don’t all have to pay tons of money, we all just have to pay a little. Surely you can sacrifice a couple afternoon late decafs for that new radio head album?

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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:47
I love emusic.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:54
i agree with the guy. Do you walk into a supermarket and walk out with a salmon. without paying for it? I even pride myself in the fact that I don`t even know how to download music  Approve .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:55
cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2009 at 16:59
Originally posted by Laridar Laridar wrote:

Surely you can sacrifice a couple afternoon late decafs for that new radio head album?

Geek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2009 at 17:41
If the music industry is in shambles then it is deservedly so.  Speaking as someone who has loved music since childhood and a prog nut since the late '70's I have seen things go from the point where interesting stuff was allowed airplay on the radio to where decent creative artists were forced into putting out commercial crap.  So now 12 year olds, who don't have a job where they can afford to buy music in the first place, are downloading stuff for free and taking money away from the middle men who didn't give the artists a fair return anyway.  Freaking wah.  The savyier artists are connecting directly with the fans and bypassing these a-holes. LOL

I'm still addicted to hard copies and will buy directly from the artists whenever I can.


Edited by Slartibartfast - May 13 2009 at 17:48
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 02:31
Originally posted by Laridar Laridar wrote:

Artists will no longer be able to afford the recording studios they once used, and the complex and expensive equipment will be out of reach for even the moderately successful artists. If you don’t think this will affect the quality of music, then you haven’t listened to the difference between complex and simple music studios of late. Listen to any top release of late, and you’ll notice that it is perfect. Or so close to perfect only the artist would know the difference between perfection and imperfection. This isn’t because the artist quality has been improving, artists and performers have been around for thousands of years, there hasn’t been a sudden jump in performer quality…

This is so not true. Today you don't need a big studio to record a great album. Sure, a big studio can be a great help, no question about it. But today even home studios can be used to record great music that sounds just like a professional production. Whether artists can actually pull that off depends on their engineering/mixing/mastering skill, not so much on technology anymore. And the technology keeps improving ... it becomes more and more affordable, and is thus taken out of the equation. In the 70s artists needed the industry because they financed their recordings (at least that was the motivation, the fine print in the contracts was another story) and to promote the music. Today artists can record/produce their music themselves, and the promotion is done via internet.

Originally posted by Laridar Laridar wrote:


No, the perfect sound comes from the studio magic that could only be funded by the music industry that everyone seems to abhor. Yes, perhaps there are quite a few greedy tycoons who are making billions off of the exploits of a band that gets paid little to nothing. But at least that band gets to perform and live the lifestyle of a rock star right? If they didn’t have the music industry, their music wouldn’t sound incredibly good (on the album), and they most likely wouldn’t have very good tours because they’d have to pay their own way to the venue they would play at. Then what would become of the music industry? People need to start paying for their MP3 downloads, or the very music culture we love is going to collapse. Say what you will about the industry’s corruption and greed, without it, there would be very little culture at all. This is going to happen eventually if we don’t start buying our MP3 downloads, and all it takes is a little extra money a month to pay for it. We don’t all have to pay tons of money, we all just have to pay a little. Surely you can sacrifice a couple afternoon late decafs for that new radio head album?



Of course. What I wrote above doesn't mean that I support illegal downloading ... rather the contrary. If today artists produce their music themselves and make it available for download on a site like CDBaby.com (and by extension Amazon MP3 and eMusic) ... all the more reason for a fan to pay for the music. One thing the illegal downloaders always say is that the money goes to the industry, not the artist ... and that's exactly what today is changing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 03:06
I agree with PF...again.

I feel the damage illegal downloading has done has been so overblown and shot out of proportion. And yes, it is so very much easier to record than it was in the past. If anything, the music (not music industry) is improving. More music is being put out, and more artists have the means to record their material and get it out there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 03:42
I would buy music, if it wasn't for my awful pocket money (I'm a teenager and can't get a job, however hard I try). Though this doesn't excuse it, it does put me in a worse position.
 
Once my allowance is increased i'll stop downloading, but it's hard to buy it when there is a download link right in front of you. I guess I have no self control when it comes to downloading. I'm sure I wouldn't want someone to download my music for free unless I allow it.
 
Meh, in my opinion, they opened Pandoras Box when they opened the internet. It would be impossible to stop downloads now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 04:08
^ can't you get your parents to buy you an emusic.com subscription? Maybe that would be worth a try ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 04:13

I lost my livelyhood due to this Napster thingy and the internet. So I have some views........ But then again; we in the music industry was digging our own graves long before Napster arrived. The ignorance and the arrogance in the music industry is well known. We thought we were unique and we could charge whatever we wanted. We looked at Michael Jackson and said "we too want to become millionaires". But we were digging our own graves because we were competing against Pizza Hut, the local kebab shop, Walmart, Coca Cola and the emerging DVD scene. It is not a god given right that the consumer would choose us instead of Coca Cola. In fact; I think we were equally killed off by Coca Cola as by Napster.

I agree with Necromancer. The genie is out of the bottle and it is impossible to put it back. Illegal downloads is here to stay. I have no idea what will happen next. But ten years ago, I retrained and got a new livelyhood. That was my only option back then and I stand by my choice.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 04:21
^ the whole music industry is becoming obsolete ... at least for quality music. Musicians today simply don't need these services as much as they needed them in times where you needed to get your music played by radio stations in order to sell albums, or to get people to come to your concerts. I think you made the right choice ... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 04:49
I have to admit I am surprised by your comments Torod - I know that the smaller labels working in our backwater of "underground" music didn't always give artists the best deal when it came to contracts and advances, but they are not the same as the major labels who were only interested in acts that would net them the next platinum disc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 05:07

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I have to admit I am surprised by your comments Torod - I know that the smaller labels working in our backwater of "underground" music didn't always give artists the best deal when it came to contracts and advances, but they are not the same as the major labels who were only interested in acts that would net them the next platinum disc.

My labels was still my livelyhood (with some additional playing the social security system in Norway). That meant I had to keep an eye on the bank balance too. That means sales of 2000 x or more. But I still did the same mistakes as the major labels. I was as deluded (or worse) as them. My main competitors was still Coca Cola, the local kebab shop and Carlsberg beer.

Yes, the major labels has lost millions or billions of dollars. I just lost my livelyhood.  But I am anything but bitter. In any case; ****** Coca Cola. Pepsi Max is what I spend my money on.

When I am advicing blue-eyed naive upstarts in the music business; I always tell them that Coca Cola and the local kebab shop is their main competitor. Not other record labels. 

I am btw writing the bio of my record labels and my experiences and views. It will be released as a book on either the internet or as a physical book. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 11:49
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ can't you get your parents to buy you an emusic.com subscription? Maybe that would be worth a try ...


My father wouldn't give me anything. He's an uptight [insert cencored word here].

I have no choice really, if I want music that is.

Once I recieve my EMA i'll be buying CDs. To make up for all this downloading. I've downloaded far too muchl
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 12:07
As quoted from the Bob Lefsetz newsletter of May 13
"Dear Bob
Ellen Shipley here.
Recording Artist in the late 1970's-1984; hit songwriter ("Heaven is Is A Place on Earth".......)
Survivor of the monstrous music business for 30 years.  One of Dave Marsh's best friends.  Mother of two kids, three dogs.
Married to veteran keyboard player (as they like to describe him) Ralph Schuckett.
It's all there---google away!

I thought I was through.  Sold part of my catalogue in 2007 to feel clean.
Not getting paid again.
 
I like your style.  This is what I have to say....If you're interested in this piece of the rotting music business pie, let me know.

It's time to tell the story of the Music Publishers who have ripped off the songwriters for years
and the songwriters who have buried their collective heads in a PC bubble in order to keep getting covers...
The audits, the sell-outs, the fear.....  All the dirty little secrets..song writers feeling forced to give their publishing away to Recording Artists
(who think its a privilege for you to have a song on their record --so bow down, eat dirt and give them part of your royalties or you won't get your song recorded);
to managers who think you"re lucky to have them and they should be rewarded beyond the percentage they already take; to heads of publishing companies who want to make as much money as they can whether they actually work for you getting covers on records or they sit round taking the credit anyway even if they did nothing.
 The Big Time lawyers who play golf or footsie or whatever with the Big Time Publishers that you need to hire so you can get your own money from the company that somehow doesn't want to give it to you. 
although the money is yours and they have no right to keep it. Oh--they always have kids at the same private school---cute.
The endless games you learn to play; the lack of fighting spirit on the part of the song writers;
the lack of a song writing community;  the lack of any "power" on the part of the song writers as they are taught to believe they are totally dispensable, replaceable,
("if you don't behave we'll use someone else's song on the record") ---low man on the proverbial music totem pole. Wow!  Really??? Go write your own sh*t
which some artists inevitably do although they can't write.  Which reminds me---do you iknow the one about the song writer who has to sit with the
recording artist who can't write at all but hold his/her hand and then give them credit as a writer of the song even though THEY CAN'T WRITE???
Swallow that.  Quietly.

Yeah. I know. I'm venting.
I was angry 30 years ago when a DJ at a radio station told me to blow him or he wouldn't play my song on his station; when my Record Company A&R guy
wouldn't stop eating his Chinese food and talk to me about my record even though I flew 3,000 miles for the appointment; when, when when........
I'm going to stop now.  I'm not having a pity party.  I'm having a "someone tell the f**king truth, already" celebration because it's time...

Let me know if you are interested in this chapter. 

I am going to meditate now that someone at one of those BIG PUBLISHING COMPANIES will send me a check.

THanks----

Ellen Shipley"

The new distribution models should allow bands to bypass the old gatekeepers completely.
And a word of advice for bands worried about losing revenue because of illegal downloads - have you considered setting up a PayPal or Visa/Mastercard payment on your site for "donations" ...If a small Quebec band like Leitmotiv can do it, so can others.
This might be a way for those who feel some need to reward those musicians whose works they have accessed for free, but want to show some support. This would not alleviate or eliminate the problem.
But then not everyone can copy Marillion's model of direct downloads at very good prices.

Which reminds me, I need to go download those OGG or Flac files from Shadow Circus. I owe one to the band.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 12:34
Originally posted by Necromancer Necromancer wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

^ can't you get your parents to buy you an emusic.com subscription? Maybe that would be worth a try ...


My father wouldn't give me anything. He's an uptight [insert cencored word here].

I have no choice really, if I want music that is.

Once I recieve my EMA i'll be buying CDs. To make up for all this downloading. I've downloaded far too muchl


That's sad to hear. Still, once you have a credit card you might still want to consider eMusic.com though ... many prog artists make their albums available there, and it's much more affordable than stores like iTunes.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 12:44
Originally posted by Laridar Laridar wrote:

The once all powerful music industry is in shambles. The RIAA is trying desperately to bail out the sinking ship with a small teaspoon, hoping that if they make an example out of a little bit of the water, the rest will follow. And it isn’t working. MP3 downloads are on the rise, and most of it isn’t legal. Oh sure, there are a few companies that are riding a wave of consumer guilt, Apple, Amazon, and Emusic, to name a few. But for the most part the average twelve year old finds it much easier to download a copy of lime wire and get an MP3 download than it is to convince a parent that they should give out their credit card to download something legally. This problem is just creating a generation of freeloaders, and as the funds from the honest people slowly starts to dry up, the music industry will start to shrivel like a grape left out in the sun. Artists will no longer be able to afford the recording studios they once used, and the complex and expensive equipment will be out of reach for even the moderately successful artists. If you don’t think this will affect the quality of music, then you haven’t listened to the difference between complex and simple music studios of late. Listen to any top release of late, and you’ll notice that it is perfect. Or so close to perfect only the artist would know the difference between perfection and imperfection. This isn’t because the artist quality has been improving, artists and performers have been around for thousands of years, there hasn’t been a sudden jump in performer quality…


No, the perfect sound comes from the studio magic that could only be funded by the music industry that everyone seems to abhor. Yes, perhaps there are quite a few greedy tycoons who are making billions off of the exploits of a band that gets paid little to nothing. But at least that band gets to perform and live the lifestyle of a rock star right? If they didn’t have the music industry, their music wouldn’t sound incredibly good (on the album), and they most likely wouldn’t have very good tours because they’d have to pay their own way to the venue they would play at. Then what would become of the music industry? People need to start paying for their MP3 downloads, or the very music culture we love is going to collapse. Say what you will about the industry’s corruption and greed, without it, there would be very little culture at all. This is going to happen eventually if we don’t start buying our MP3 downloads, and all it takes is a little extra money a month to pay for it. We don’t all have to pay tons of money, we all just have to pay a little. Surely you can sacrifice a couple afternoon late decafs for that new radio head album?



Message paid for by Digital Music Download Coalition

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 13:24
A sorry mess.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2009 at 14:19
As a matter of principle, and PC security, I will not download illegally. Bands work their bo***cks off to produce fine music, and are entitled to make a few pounds/dollars from their efforts.

Downloading from legitimate sites is not that expensive. I personally think the emusic choice to be a little restrictive, although I haven't checked for a little while, but I went to Amazon tonight to see the Decemberists new LP following some positive reviews, and found I can download this for only £6.99 - that's less than the price of three pints of beer. Not really all that expensive is it?


Edited by lazland - May 14 2009 at 14:20
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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