what is prog?

this is totally opinion and hopefully there isnt already a topic on this, but how do you perceive prog music? keep an open mind to opinions.

That's why, Chopper, we talk forever about it and these topics should be open to discussion always.

Yontar, for me prog is an extension of jazz influences into the world of "classical" music. This definition is for symphonic prog, of course, and other genres seem to have less the classical influence, yet still hold that jazz experimentation. The small singles of the late 1950's and early 1960's evolved into some wonderful art by, say, the Beatles and the Moody Blues. They came along in the late 1960's, but they didn't have this touch that was actually developed by the prog "masters". Yes, Genesis, Camel, Focus, and Gentle Giant took the jazz and classical influences to an actual level. They were simply trained classical artists who, through simple experience, were into classical-romantic period music. I suppose they decided to translate this into their own music with rock instrumentation.

That cannot be said for all people though... all bands. I cannot say what makes prog, as every piece of music technically progresses to its own end. Within the music; the folds, the vocals, the playing, the technical skill: therein lies the crux of the matter. Guitarists such as Lifeson, Hackett, and Howe incorporated their own jazz AND classical influences into the mix, for example. There was no 4/4 signature of tempo, no repeated choruses, and no constant use of a singular "hook". Perhaps they decided to move it along, to tell a true story; an evolving story, played in the music. In "Prog", I see keyboards; there is almost always a keyboard present in a band, but the guitar also augments this with playing.

One does not need to play fast or slow to be a progressive musician... perhaps there is credence in the use of 11/8, 16/2, and 176784/284252432 tempo, but that doesn't seem to be all there is to making music "progress". Honestly, anyone can play music fast or slow; perhaps it is the orchestration and organization of the process that creates the feeling. Vocals are often not based on the banal or mundane in ordinary life; no cars, no women, no alcohol or other drugs. If a song is about these things, it's usually subtle in meaning, as if it's one of the great 19th century poems. Prog has a bombast, a grandiosity that I believe is quite unmatched by other musicians of the 1970's.

There is, in my mind, a plotline of events set down in each song by the keyboards in tandem with guitars, jazz, and classical influences (listen to the constant changes and often improvisations in Prog; it's reminiscent of jazz). The vocals are not grounded to humanity, but instead often explore it in a science fiction or fantasy way. Concepts are often the butt of the joke in Progressive Music, as you don't see many concept albums around in "pop". Sure, there were "Tommy" and "Quadrophenia", but there is an indescribable and awe-inspiring aura from the prog bands that I simply don't get from the great rock releases.

In fact, I don't know at all what makes prog.

The simple straight forward answer is progressive music is complex, sophisticated, intricate music.

How about telling us how you perceive it Yontar?

anyway :

I'd just like to point out a small linguistic detail: from a literal point of view, 'progressive' means 'that goes forward'. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily mean complex, intricate or sophisticated. This is rather a by-product than any intrinsic feature of 'progressive' music (rock or otherwise). As a matter of fact, lots of contemporary prog bands are anything but 'progressive' in their outlook, though we still consider them to be so.

The two points, which I applaud, one from GR and one from vingaton, actually merge. The idea of a proper genre name, not being Prog, for the reason that new Prog does not progress. It does not regress either but rather, sits complacently, for the most part. The only thing in my eyes that is progressing these days is new rock and some R&B. Tangent: Country music isn't progressing either but incorporating those things that made rock successful. Reminds me of Windows "incorporating" MacIntosh ideas many years back.

Ghost Rider wrote: I'd just like to point out a small linguistic detail: from a literal point of view, 'progressive' means 'that goes forward'. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily mean complex, intricate or sophisticated. This is rather a by-product than any intrinsic feature of 'progressive' music (rock or otherwise). As a matter of fact, lots of contemporary prog bands are anything but 'progressive' in their outlook, though we still consider them to be so.

cmidkiff wrote: If an artist/band progresses from rock to country then to heavy metal would that make them a progressive rock band?

Are you implying Metallica?

I'm wondering about the same question. Furthermore, if an fictional band releases an album, let's say, 60 minutes longs with 8 tracks on it...

Track 01: average country with spices of rock in Garth Brooks style
Track 02: a blues piece utilising slide
Track 03: a heavy metal number in Megadeth style
Track 04: a short folkish protest tune, with mouth organ (harmonica)
Track 05: a collaboration with a tenor in "Pavarotti meets Bono Vox for world peace" style
Track 06: alternative piece between Stereolab and Sonic Youth
Track 07: pure contemporary classical, short piano piece, because keyboardist is classically trained and insisted on inclusion of his work on this album. Just unaccompanied Steinway piano.
Track 08: (longest track, 10 mins) electronic piece, typical acid-house, no live instruments, because guitarist is toying with computers in his free time, and wanted to include his piece on this album.


...this album is diverse and eclectic. Is it prog?




Edited by clarke2001 - March 20 2007 at 13:27

Music is simply music, is it not? Descriptions do not help, as each descriptor has it in his or her mind to describe one thing, and another something else. You can have a massive, fluid jam of drums, piano, guitar, vocals, tape effects, bass guitar, and an orchestra; it changes tempo, mood, and contains several movements which segue. I ask what this is called, for I have read a few reviews concerning Focus (for example) and their use of classical themes in drawn out jams. Are they simply jazz/classical-esque "jams", or are they "progressive"? Does not every album progress in that an old piece of music ends and a new one begins? Are we supposed to take this so literally, or are we to take the romanticized approach, which all this naming really is?

Let's just call prog "Human Music 96574", Classical "Human Music 4356"; serialize it all!