The Atheist Thread

First off, here's a place to post about atheism, what are some good atheist books, why all atheists are going to hell, what a totalitarian dictator that God guy really is. Anything having to do with atheism. Just keep it civil (more civil than what I've said already). Let's see if we can keep it all in good fun and good taste, and get the fundamentalist christians and the fundamentalist atheists laughing together at the same jokes.

Have fun.



My following argument rests on two assumptions
1) God is something higher than humans, supernatural, all-seeing and all powerful being that for all intents and purposes, is alive (all else I would say is not defined by the term God)
2) Human beings have free will

Here is my argument against God. Assuming that humans have free will, which I assume you all agree with me that we do, there can be no God. God is supernatural, can see the past, knows the future, and can do anything. If God knows everything that happens in the future, then no matter what you say or think, every action of yours is predetermined. The same goes for God. He (sorry feminists) may be able to do anything, but he has no choice whether he does it or not. He knows it will happen, and there's nothing he can do to stop that.

What this means is that God has limits, which means that God is not supernatural. Thus, the whole concept of a supernatural God is an oxymoron.

The way I see it, there are three ways to categorize beings. Those with free will and no limits (supernatural - as we've shown, cannot exist) are "higher" than those with free will but with limits (like animals, which age and die, and such things, but have free will), which are in turn higher than those without free will (like trees and mushrooms, which do not choose how they grow, but simply do so as genetically coded responses to different external stimulae).

Now, if there is a "higher" God, this God must have free will but have limits, and humans must lack free will. Now, there is an argument to be made that all human actions are a result of genetically coded responses to external stimulae, and that, therefore, two identical humans with the same genetic code, placed in two identical worlds designed to give them exactly the same response for any action, will live exactly the same life. However, this is virtually untestable, so we will never know.

Also, let me put it this way. If humans and other animals lack free will, than any higher being does not fall under the laws of nature as we know them, and so is just as unlikely as an all-powerful God.

That is why I believe that there is no God, even though I am a practicing Jew. I am Jewish because I was brought up that way, and was thus brought up feeling a connection to Jews around the world (in a way that simply doesn't happen between Christians - not to be offensive, but it's the truth, Christians kill Christians all the time, but Jews rarely kill Jews). Judaism is more than a religion, it is a culture and a way of life, certain aspects of which I find more ethical than much of the modern society I belong to. The Torah (five books of moses, part of the Old Testament - but not all of it) is flawed in many places (and scientific studies have shown that each of the five books was written by a different person... must be five gods then ), especially the stoning to death parts and the women are either unimportant, raped, or evil (women are almost never mentioned unless they do something bad or are raped, it's true, sadly) parts, and I feel little connection to it. I feel a connection to the sense of community that binds the Jewish people. Did you know, for instance, that the sabbath (shabbat in hebrew) in Israel is extended so that it overlaps with Shabbat in EVERY other part of the world, and that all Jews who go to services read from the exact same part of the Torah as other Jews every week? That's connection for you.

Well, I'm done rambling. I'm a Jewish atheist, how about you. Also, my favorite religious joke, by Kurt Vonnegut, pokes fun of Judaism, and it's simply classic (see, I can laugh at Judaism in good taste).

It goes along these lines. "I have always pitied Jews, having to go through life with only half a bible."

How do YOU feel about atheism? 


EDIT: Snow Dog and Sean Trane, that was a joke... because seem people (Richard Dawkins for one) treat their atheism with the respect and care religious people treat their religion

Edited by inpraiseoffolly - January 17 2007 at 17:31

Atheism is not a religion, I'm an atheistic atheist, been this way since I was 12. The Gadfly by L. Voynich is an amazing book deaing with the subject that I highly recommend.

Edited by The Miracle - December 27 2006 at 21:15

The point of "f**k religion" is for it not to be considered or talked about!

The way I see it you can live with hope or you can live without hope.

IMHO, we shouldn't take into consideration any religion's teaching's.. no person's sayings or writings can even get close to the essence of God... in addition to this, the church, any church, is more a commercial enterprise and a man's creation - not a divine one - and so it is doomed to fail..

so, now that we separated church from God, let me tell you about my "theory":

the way i see it and given that there is no real (and by real i mean conceivable) proof of the existence of God, all that ever a man did was to deify and exalt some things he couldn't understand: rain, fire, nature, death... everything that was beyond human understanding was God.. or, to put it otherwise everything a man ever feared of was automatically God... that is the fear that the church has always been exploiting to attract believers...

in conclusion, whoever is an atheist is sth absolutely natural, or shall i say rational since it's really naive, precultural and primitive to just put your questions for existence and your fears on a pedestal...

so, primarily, i'm with you...

but, if you think about it, just because you don't understand sth or can't explain it, doesn't mean it's not true... on the other side, there's not much you can do about it cause that's the brain nature gave to you...

so, if you think about it, what do all of the above make you? that's right, an agnostic..that's what i am...

"This atheist is not opposed to the idea of a deity/creator, but there is no chance of it happening.

And if there was one, he would destroy his "oeuvre" just seeing those speaking in his name"

Hi Sean!

Could you please develop that?

My following argument rests on two assumptions
1) God is something higher than humans, supernatural, all-seeing and all powerful being that for all intents and purposes, is alive (all else I would say is not defined by the term God)
2) Human beings have free will

Here is my argument against God. Assuming that humans have free will, which I assume you all agree with me that we do, there can be no God. God is supernatural, can see the past, knows the future, and can do anything. If God knows everything that happens in the future, then no matter what you say or think, every action of yours is predetermined. The same goes for God. He (sorry feminists) may be able to do anything, but he has no choice whether he does it or not. He knows it will happen, and there's nothing he can do to stop that.

What this means is that God has limits, which means that God is not supernatural. Thus, the whole concept of a supernatural God is an oxymoron.

The definition of supernatural doesn't contain any notion of being unlimited. I think you mean ``omnipotence, in which case, yes, it is more logical to assume god isn't omnipotent (the whole can god create a rock too heavy for him to lift thing). The whole concept of a supernatural god ISN'T an oxymoron, and neither is the concept of an omnipotent god - the former is contained within the concept of god itself (god must be supernatural to be god), and the latter is likely to be false, given our understanding of human logic.



Here's the thing - your belief that humans have free will contradicts the traditional CONCEPT of god (omnipotent, omniscient, etc), but does nothing to bring the existence of god into question - it's more disputing the various attributes of such a deity than offering an argument for it's non-existence, which, leads me on to the whole
unfalsifiable issue of god's existence, in that essentially god can never be proven to not exist, although it can never really be considered a valid scientific theory. All attempts to challenge the possibility of a deity of some sort are futile in my book - you simply cannot prove that god doesn't exist, the idea will always persist. which is why i'm agnostic.

As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.

toolsofthetrade wrote: sleeper wrote: As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.      You sound more like an agnostic then

By what, having no belief in Dieties (sp?), I thought that was the point of Atheism, lack of belief.

To state that one doesnt believe in God is to make a theological statment just like saying that you  believe in God.

sleeper wrote: toolsofthetrade wrote: sleeper wrote: As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.      You sound more like an agnostic then By what, having no belief in Dieties (sp?), I thought that was the point of Atheism, lack of belief.To state that one doesnt believe in God is to make a theological statment just like saying that you  believe in God.

You say `i neither believe that god exists or that he doesn't exist'. That's a purely agnostic statement, not an atheistic one.