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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iran Crisis
    Posted: January 26 2006 at 05:44

This week the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) will meet to decide whether to refer Iran to the UN Security council, in light of its refusal to stop it's pursuit of a nuclear energy program. The US and Israel believe, as do their allies, that the Islamic republic is pursuing a WMD program. Irans recently elected hard line government has been quoted as saying it wishes to 'wipe Israel of the map'

The Russians have said they will not stand in the way of a UN decision on Iran, in other words they would not veto any resolution for sanctions, but are keen for diplomacy to win out. They have offered Iran a deal wherby the Uranium enrichment process can be conducted on Russian soil, thus not allowing Iran the materials needed for a bomb. Iran are interested in the deal, and have stated that UN sanctions will not bring about an end to their energy program which they believe they have a right - in international law - to pursue.

If the security council passes a resolution for sanctions which is ignored by Iran, will military action be the next step? Will Israel act unilaterally? What effect would an attack on Iran do for US relations with China who recieves 13% of its oil from Iran, and with Russia, an ally of Iran who has been supplying her with parts for nuclear power stations as well as missiles and defence systems to deter/counter any attack from the Jewish state??

Would any conflict escalate into something bigger than we have seen in Iraq? This guy seems to think so....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;code=%20CH20060103&articleId=1714

Perhaps the Russian compromise can avoid sanctions or conflict... Read about Chinas support below...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4649182.stm



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 06:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 06:15

Oh God.

Well if bird flu doesn't get us,

or the ice caps melting don't drown us,

or a meteroite doesn't crash into the Earth,

or terrorists don't wipe us out,

or George Galloway doesn't bore us all to death (arse)

this will get us.

 

Cheery old World isn't it.  Now where's my Lithium tablets gone...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 06:39

I like to think I bring a little ray of sunshine to the forum..  Perhaps I should change my user name to Grim Reaper..

For what it's worth we have been here before with the nuclear thing. The guy who wrote the article in my link is a professor of economics at the University of ottawa. What actually qualifies him as a military strategist I've no idea. I see it as no more than opinion, albeit a well argued and fairly frightening one.

Perhaps this is the build up to the next in the series of 'Resource Wars' ; the clamouring of the 'fittest' nations to secure the worlds dwindling fuel reserves, masquerading as some ill concieved fight between good and evil. One thing is for sure, anyone who thinks the 'cold war' is really over, must have slept through the 90's.

IMO...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 07:22
It's a throny issue to be sure but I guess you can always say, how many countries in the world have nuclear power but NO nuclear weapons?

I can sense another middle east 'conflict' coming on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 07:52

It's the same media attack that was used so successfully to bamboozle the public over Iraq.The screw will be turned and turned until the public demands action and another moslem state will become the enemy-at-large.

Given,therefore,that some kind of conflict with Iran is inevitable,can I predict the following?

1. Nuclear Inspectors will try unsuccessfully to gain admission to the Nuclear Plants and decide that this means that Iran is developing weapons of mass distruction.
2. Atrocities carried out around the world that were previously not connected to Iran suddenly will be.
3.Terrorists will blow something up in either Europe or America and "Al Jazeirah" will claim to have a tape stating that the atrocity was in retaliation for the threats to Iran.
4.Tony Blair/The PM will align himself with Bush/USA Pres to maintain "world security"
5. Intelligence will link Iran with Osama Bin Laden and indeed they might be harbouring him.
6. Reports will detail that Iraq "Now has Nuclear Capability"
7. Iran will be attacked because "they might be about to blow us all up".Some kind of near miss will be reported,where but for intelligence a nuclear assault could have been attempted.
8. Some commentators will be shouted down for suggesting that a) Its all about Iran's oil and b) that there is no proof that Iran has nuclear weapons.
9.Iran will be crushed,hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians will be killed,and a few thousand Allied troops (mainly Americans)
10. A relative of G.Bush will be linked to a firm overseeing oil production in Iran.
11. A commisiion will be set up that eventually discovers what everyone knew: there are no nuclear weapons in Iran and Osama Bin Laden is more than likely hiding in Pakistan/Kurdistan/Florida.
12. Someone on this forum will declare that he doesnt care how many Iranians are killed because so many American troops have lost their lives in the defence of their country.
13.MTS will be hounded off the forum ()

Seriously.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 08:12
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

It's the same media attack that was used so successfully to bamboozle the public over Iraq.The screw will be turned and turned until the public demands action and another moslem state will become the enemy-at-large.

Given,therefore,that some kind of conflict with Iran is inevitable,can I predict the following?

1. Nuclear Inspectors will try unsuccessfully to gain admission to the Nuclear Plants and decide that this means that Iran is developing weapons of mass distruction.
2. Atrocities carried out around the world that were previously not connected to Iran suddenly will be.
3.Terrorists will blow something up in either Europe or America and "Al Jazeirah" will claim to have a tape stating that the atrocity was in retaliation for the threats to Iran.
4.Tony Blair/The PM will align himself with Bush/USA Pres to maintain "world security"
5. Intelligence will link Iran with Osama Bin Laden and indeed they might be harbouring him.
6. Reports will detail that Iraq "Now has Nuclear Capability"
7. Iran will be attacked because "they might be about to blow us all up".Some kind of near miss will be reported,where but for intelligence a nuclear assault could have been attempted.
8. Some commentators will be shouted down for suggesting that a) Its all about Iran's oil and b) that there is no proof that Iran has nuclear weapons.
9.Iran will be crushed,hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians will be killed,and a few thousand Allied troops (mainly Americans)
10. A relative of G.Bush will be linked to a firm overseeing oil production in Iran.
11. A commisiion will be set up that eventually discovers what everyone knew: there are no nuclear weapons in Iran and Osama Bin Laden is more than likely hiding in Pakistan/Kurdistan/Florida.
12. Someone on this forum will declare that he doesnt care how many Iranians are killed because so many American troops have lost their lives in the defence of their country.
13.MTS will be hounded off the forum ()

Seriously.

It seems you have the same crystal ball as me Tony. Thats pretty much exactly what I think is going to happen. But I dont think this will be another Iraq. It could be a lot worse. It's a different 'enemy' this time.... 

If Iran is attacked, they will retalliate against Israel. They have the means to. It would be a bloodbath, making the Iraq conflict look like a chimps tea party.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 08:19

What we need really are more women as head of state.

Not sure how much longer George has to go in his term, but sounds like he might be replaced by Hillary or Condalisa.

If only Islam was slightly more tolerant of women we could then envisage a Mrs. Iotolah of Iran. (I see a fatwah heading my way )

The girls could then meet up have a chat, swap makeup tips, and stop all this bloody lunancy.

Its clear women are the more stabilising influence. Look at the mahem us chaps get up to in this forum. If we had more women on the forum, and maybe Mrs.Tony R moderating, I am sure we would all be more relaxed.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 08:37

I agree that Iran should stop its nuclear energy program as long as all the 'allies' do the same

If a conflict comes up, then things could be worse than Iraq...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 08:38
Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

What we need really are more women as head of state.

Not sure how much longer George has to go in his term, but sounds like he might be replaced by Hillary or Condalisa.

If only Islam was slightly more tolerant of women we could then envisage a Mrs. Iotolah of Iran. (I see a fatwah heading my way )

The girls could then meet up have a chat, swap makeup tips, and stop all this bloody lunancy.

Its clear women are the more stabilising influence. Look at the mahem us chaps get up to in this forum. If we had more women on the forum, and maybe Mrs.Tony R moderating, I am sure we would all be more relaxed.

The 'man' factor is something to do with it, I'm sure, but I dont think there is any reason why someone like Condoleeza Rice wopuld be any more compassionate on the world stage than her deranged boss. People who seek power are usually - by default - the wrong people to take power. There's no solution to this problem though. After all, you want a leader who at leasts thinks he/she is up to the job..

The biggest concern for me is that religous fundamentalists in Washington, Tel Aviv and all across the Muslim world are playing 'Apocalypse' games. It may not ultimately matter if God exists or not, but if the MEN with their fingers on the triggers believe he does, and they believe they have been instructed to pull those triggers, then we are all screwed!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 08:50
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

What we need really are more women as head of state.

Not sure how much longer George has to go in his term, but sounds like he might be replaced by Hillary or Condalisa.

If only Islam was slightly more tolerant of women we could then envisage a Mrs. Iotolah of Iran. (I see a fatwah heading my way )

The girls could then meet up have a chat, swap makeup tips, and stop all this bloody lunancy.

Its clear women are the more stabilising influence. Look at the mahem us chaps get up to in this forum. If we had more women on the forum, and maybe Mrs.Tony R moderating, I am sure we would all be more relaxed.

The 'man' factor is something to do with it, I'm sure, but I dont think there is any reason why someone like Condoleeza Rice wopuld be any more compassionate on the world stage than her deranged boss. People who seek power are usually - by default - the wrong people to take power. There's no solution to this problem though. After all, you want a leader who at leasts thinks he/she is up to the job..

The biggest concern for me is that religous fundamentalists in Washington, Tel Aviv and all across the Muslim world are playing 'Apocalypse' games. It may not ultimately matter if God exists or not, but if the MEN with their fingers on the triggers believe he does, and they believe they have been instructed to pull those triggers, then we are all screwed!

Yep, I think you're right.

Douglas Adams summed up the leadership problem best in my opinion:

"One of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them: It is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. Anyone who is capable of getting themselves into a position of power should on no account be allowed to do the job."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:08
^ Yeah, that quote hits the nail on the head, I think
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:24
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

One thing is for sure, anyone who thinks the 'cold war' is really over, must have slept through the 90's.

The cold war is over. Now we have a hot potato.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:25
Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

What we need really are more women as head of state.

What, like Maggie Thatcher? That woman was so compassionate.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:30
Originally posted by Bob Greece Bob Greece wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

What we need really are more women as head of state.

What, like Maggie Thatcher? That woman was so compassionate.

She was to General Pinochet!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:32
Originally posted by Bob Greece Bob Greece wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

What we need really are more women as head of state.

What, like Maggie Thatcher? That woman was so compassionate.

Maggie is not a woman, but a product of dark alchemy.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:47

Well, the task with Iran must be great...

  • Iran is 4 times bigger than Iraq and has a huge population also 4 times that of Iraq. Iranian people is more educated and concerned and they are basically of the shi'a sect - no religious divisions like in Iraq. 
  • As long as I know, except for minorities, well integrated, of azeris and turcomens the population is homogeneous with the same persian background - no great ethnic divisions like in Iraq. 
  • Iran has also very good Armed Forces and the ayatollahs are not silly guys like Saddam; they have a good industrial park capable of manufacturing light-to-medium weapons and other important items - Iraq had a tiny industrial park (except for the oil sector). 
  • The resistance, in case of an invasion (which I still doubt) will be tremendous! They have certainly the atomic bomb but presently no means (a missile) to pour Israel for instance but they can let several artifacts in the eventual route of American & Allied forces - not counting the philosophy of flattened land, meaning the destruction of refineries, pipeways and oil pits.

Honestly, I believe that only a mad, mad, mad man is able to take this enterprise... but since the name Bush is cited I fear he'll take it.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 09:56
Another issue would be other terrorist attacks under due to the pretext that arabs iranians are being "attacked" by westerners.
To darken the painting a little more...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 10:25
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Well, the task with Iran must be great...  Great analysis of Iran, but:

  • Iran is 4 times bigger than Iraq and has a huge population also 4 times that of Iraq. Iranian people is more educated and concerned and they are basically of the shi'a sect - no religious divisions like in Iraq.  This remains to be really seen. The Kurdish monorities as well as the Azeris and Turkmens are Sunnites I think
  • As long as I know, except for minorities, well integrated, of azeris and turcomens the population is homogeneous with the same persian background - no great ethnic divisions like in Iraq.  You forgot the Kurds and the Baloutch who regularly dream od Kurdistan and Baloutchistan (close to Pakistan)
  • Iran has also very good Armed Forces and the ayatollahs are not silly guys like Saddam I personnaly think of Saddam as anythiing but silly: he kept - through blodshed I agree - peace among all factions , something that is impossible for anyone else in the last 200 years ; they have a good industrial park capable of manufacturing light-to-medium weapons and other important items - Iraq had a tiny industrial park (except for the oil sector).  The armed forces were unable to beat a relatively weak regime of Irak and nothing is to tell us that they have bettered themselves since, but I sure as hell would not want to even check on it or even call a bluff!!
  • The resistance, in case of an invasion (which I still doubt) will be tremendous! Agreed They have certainly the atomic bomb but presently no means (a missile) to pour Israel for instance but they can let several artifacts in the eventual route of American & Allied forces - not counting the philosophy of flattened land, meaning the destruction of refineries, pipeways and oil pits. I do not even think that this flattened land strategy has even occured to Iran, they are fanatical enough to die while fighting.

Honestly, I believe that only a mad, mad, mad man is able to take this enterprise... but since the name Bush is cited I fear he'll take it.

Trust Dubya to do something that stupid!!!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2006 at 10:29

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Another issue would be other terrorist attacks under due to the pretext that arabs iranians are being "attacked" by westerners.
To darken the painting a little more...

Persians are not Arabs and Sunnites think of Shiites as traitors,

but I am not so sure Arab nations will let a US led invasion of Iran happen. This might be the straw too much for Muslims.

And Tony's list of chronoligical events is also relatively likely to happen , but will stop short of invasion - this is inconceivable. I think missiles will be sent to destroy suspect installations.



Edited by Sean Trane
let's just stay above the moral melee
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