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Two 'technical prog' epics from 1974.

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Poll Question: Which one do you like better?
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Moyan View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 29 2024 at 11:13
"The Ikon," released on the record that came out in October 1974, and "The Gates of Delirium," from the album released in November of the same year, are both brilliant epics. In fact, they are both masterpieces. Which one do you like better?



Utopia "The Ikon"

Here are some features for your reference: Utopia consisted of six top-notch musicians; three of them played keyboards. Do you enjoy bubbling, spacey synthesisers in fast-paced, ring-modulated parts? What about explosive, crunchy drumming, some of the best ever fiery guitar solos, and stunning vocal harmonies? "The Ikon" has everything we could possibly need. One of the few real epic masterpieces to come out of the subgenre of 'technical' prog. 
Rock critics were quick to criticise "Todd Rundgren's Utopia" upon its release in the autumn of 1974, calling it pretentious, haughty, overindulgent, and other such adjectives, probably mostly due to the 30-minute-long "The Ikon." However, it's astounding how nicely "The Ikon" functions in the constellation of technical prog-rock created for you to get laid back and enjoy it. "The Ikon," in my opinion, is an epic song that truly elevates Todd Rundgren to the pantheon of prog gods without discounting the other extraordinarily skilled members of Utopia. His insane guitar playing, his kind, inviting voice, and the fact that he composed and directed this enormous, amazingly intricate epic song.








Yes "The Gates of Delirium"

Steve Howe's guitar work is the best in the entire 'technical' prog canon of the mid-to-late 1970s, hands down. No other guitarist can convey the variety of moods and tones like Steve can in even a single song like "The Gates of Delirium" from the 1974 Yes album "Relayer." There are scalar runs that sting, pyrotechnics that dive-bomb, leads with cosmic sustain, and the most exquisite slide guitar tones ever heard. As Wakeman steps down from the keyboard, Patrick Moraz takes over and rips off amazing synthesiser solos that push the band past its prior symphonic towards 'technical' prog. 
Meanwhile, Chris Squire and Alan White provide what may be the best rhythm section performance ever. Musically speaking, this 22-minute song consists of an instrumental that depicts the combat and an opening vocal portion. The last part is titled "Soon" and is a mellow, comforting plea for hope and peace. Jon's singing is sublime, and that portion actually predicted his collaborative work with Vangelis. "Soon," an incredibly beautiful section, magically adorns the whole epic, and it was eventually edited into the album's single.




Edited by Moyan - April 29 2024 at 19:06
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Mormegil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 11:30
Yes, by a mile/kilometer.
Welcome to the middle of the film.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 11:43
Yes Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 11:45
Yes. Every solar system in the universe should have a gallon of spinach dip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 11:56





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 13:41
Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

(photos of Yes and Todd Rundgren's Utopia)
The Utopia picture (bottom) is from the Ra era - completely different lineup (except for Todd Rundgren) from the one that'd recorded the debut. I did a bit of research and from what I've read, the Ra lineup never performed The Ikon in its entirety live. xD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Criswell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 14:15
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

(photos of Yes and Todd Rundgren's Utopia)
The Utopia picture (bottom) is from the Ra era - completely different lineup (except for Todd Rundgren) from the one that'd recorded the debut. I did a bit of research and from what I've read, the Ra lineup never performed The Ikon in its entirety live. xD

A picture of the Powell Probe! Haven't seen that in a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mellotronwave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 17:27
I like both, Gates is my choice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 18:33
As much as I love Gates... I love The Ikon more
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Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 18:51
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

(photos of Yes and Todd Rundgren's Utopia)
The Utopia picture (bottom) is from the Ra era - completely different lineup (except for Todd Rundgren) from the one that'd recorded the debut. I did a bit of research and from what I've read, the Ra lineup never performed The Ikon in its entirety live. xD
Of course. By the way, a concert shot with most of the line-up that recorded the Utopia 1974 debut album can be seen on its back cover. I only put up the Utopia Ra tour image for fun and decoration; I always loved how it looked, and it seems to flow nicely with the Yes' Crab Nebula Stage Smile




Edited by Moyan - April 29 2024 at 18:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 20:21
OMG... The Ikon... by 1000x more sing-able miles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2024 at 22:52
The Ikon (and that album in general) is alright, but to me, it just sounds like Todd (chameleon that he is) wanted to play prog for a bit and took all the cliches of the genre at the time and spat out this track.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2024 at 00:25
Yes - The Gates of Delirium
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2024 at 00:48
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

The Ikon (and that album in general) is alright, but to me, it just sounds like Todd (chameleon that he is) wanted to play prog for a bit and took all the cliches of the genre at the time and spat out this track.
Todd Rundgren was unquestionably a genre chameleon, yet he approached each genre he got into with honesty and thoroughness. This can be concluded from the fact that not only did Rundgren mastermind two of the best prog-rock albums ever released in the United States with the Utopia debut in 1974 and "Ra," but he also did a fantastic job producing Steve Hillage's album "L" from 1976, on which the Utopia lineup at the time served as Hillage's backup band. We can probably argue that "L" is one of the greatest albums in the genre released by a solo artist and certainly the best-produced Hillage's record.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2024 at 03:11
I shamelessly voted for "Ikon". IMO it's one of the best prog epics ever made (no matter if American or not) in terms of production, performance and composition. The vocal sections are incredibly well distributed in contrast to the instrumental breakdowns! I've heard a few stellar 20+ minute prog songs in which the balance between proggy instrumental parts and "song" sections doesn't flow with as much elegance as displayed on "Ikon".

Granted, it's longer than "Gates" and there is a lot of obvious padding that could've easily been left upon the cutting room floor, but when the track picks up the pace, it goes to the levels of songwriting and musicianship excellence never reached by Yes throughtout their entire career.

Edited by Hrychu - April 30 2024 at 03:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2024 at 05:50
One of the few times I'm not voting for Yes, specially from that era. Utopia is really a master piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2024 at 07:14
^Agree. The Ikon is a masterpiece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2024 at 15:05
Absolutely love "The Ikon" and I even have the LP, but Delirium is a pure classic that I used to wear out. Had to go with 'Yes' on this one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonshake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2024 at 16:46
The Gates of Delirium
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2024 at 17:07
Going with "The Ikon"!
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