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marktheshark View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bad Christians
    Posted: August 23 2005 at 13:12
Interesting article here. Stuff like this makes me sick.

Robertson Calls for Chavez Assassination
Aug 23 12:21 PM US/Eastern
   

By SUE LINDSEY
Associated Press Writer


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va.


Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson has suggested that American agents assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to stop his country from becoming "a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."

An official of a theological watchdog group on Tuesday criticized Robertson's statement as "chilling."

"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said Monday on the Christian Broadcast Network's "The 700 Club."

"We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."

On Tuesday, critics objected to Robertson's statements.

"It's absolutely chilling to hear a religious leader call for the murder of any political leader, no matter how much he disagrees with such a leader's policies or practices," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

David Brock, president of Media Matters, a liberal media watchdog group, said the remarks should discredit Robertson as a spokesman for the religious right.

Robertson, 75, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, accused the United States of failing to act when Chavez was briefly overthrown in 2002.

A Robertson spokeswoman, Angell Watts, said he would not do interviews Tuesday and had no statement elaborating on his remarks.

A call seeking comment from the U.S. State Department was not immediately returned Tuesday.

Chavez was believed to be in Cuba, but his whereabouts were unknown and no media access was announced.

In Caracas, pro-Chavez legislator Desire Santos Amaral accused Robertson of shedding his Christian values.

"This man cannot be a true Christian. He's a fascist," Santos said. "This is part of the policies of aggression from the right wing in the North against our revolution."

Santos said she thinks U.S.-Venezuelan relations could still improve but comments by "charlatans and fascists" like Robertson only get in the way.

Venezuela is the fifth largest oil exporter and a major supplier of oil to the United States. The CIA estimates that U.S. markets absorb almost 59 percent of Venezuela's total exports.

Venezuela's government has demanded in the past that the United States crack down on Cuban and Venezuelan "terrorists" in Florida who they say are conspiring against Chavez.

Robertson has made controversial statements in the past. In October he suggested that the State Department be blown up with a nuclear device. He has also said that feminism encourages women to "kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 13:24

(No further comment necessary - Frank Zappa: Jesus Think's you're a Jerk from Broadway the Hard Way)

There's an ugly little wasel 'bout three-foot nine
Face puffed up from cryin' 'n lyin'
'Cause her sweet little hubby's
Suckin' prong part time
(In the name of The Lord)


Get a clue, little shrew
Oh yeah, oh yeah
Jesus thinks you're a jerk


Did he really choose Tammy to do His Work?
Robertson says that he's The One
Oh sure he is,
if Armageddon
Is your idea of family fun,
An' he's got some planned for you!
(Now, tell me that ain't true)


Now, what if Jimbo's slightly gay,
Will Pat let Jimbo get away?
Everything we've heard him say
Indicated that Jim must pay,
(And it just might hurt a bit)
But keep that money rollin' in,
'Cause Pat and naughty Jimbo
Can't get enough of it


Perhaps it's their idea
Of an Affirmative Action Plan
To give White Trash a 'special break';
Well, they took those Jeezo-bucks and ran
To the bank! To the bank! To the bank! To the bank!
And every night we can hear them thank
Their Buddy, up above
For sending down his love
(While you all smell the glove)


Jim and Pat should take a pole
(Right up each saintly glory-hole),
With tar and feathers too --
Just like they'd love to do to you


('Cause they think you are bad --
And they are very mad)


'Cause some folks don't want prayer in school!


(We'd need an ark to survive the drool
Of Micro-publicans, raised on hate,
And 'Jimbo-Jimbo' when they graduate)


Conviced they are 'The Chosen Ones' --
And all their parents carry guns,
And hold them cards in the N.R.A.
(With their fingers on the triggers
When they kneel and pray)


With a Ku-Klux muu-muu
In the back of the truck,
If you ain't Born Again,
They wanna mess you up, screamin':
"No abortion, no-siree!"
"Life's too precious, can't you see!"
(What's that hangin' from the neighbor's tree?
Why, it looks like 'colored folks' to me --
Would THEY do THAT...seriously?)


Imagine if you will
A multi-millionaire Television Evangelist,
Saved from Korean Combat duty by his father, a U.S. Senator


Studied Law --
But is not qualified to practice it


Father of a "love child"
Who, in adulthood, hosts the remnants
Of papa's religious propaganda program


Claims not to be a "Faith Healer",
But has, in the past,
Dealt stearnly with everything from hemorrhoids to hurricanes


Involved with funding for a 'secret war' in Central America
Claiming Ronald Reagan and Oliver North as close friends


Involved in suspicous 'tax-avoidance schemes',
(Under investigation for 16 months by the I.R.S.)


Claims to be a MAN OF GOD;
Currenty seeking the United States Presidency,
Hoping we will all follow him into --
The Twilight Zone


What if Pat gets in the White House,
And suddenly --
The rights of 'certain people' disappear
Mysteriously?


Now, wouldn't that sort of qualify
As an American Tragedy?
(Especially if he covers it up, sayin'
"Jesus told it to me!")


I hope we never see that day,
In The Land of The Free --
Or someday will we?
Will we?


And if you don't know by now,
The truth of what I'm tellin' you,
Then, surely I have failed somehow --


And Jesus will think I'm a jerk, just like you --
If you let those TV Preachers
Make a monkey out of you!


I said:
"Jesus will think you're a jerk"
And it will be true!


There's an old rugged cross
In the land of cutton --
It's still burnin' on somebody's lawn
And it still smells rotten


Jim and Tammy!
Oh, baby!
You gotta go!
You really got to go!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 13:37

Originally posted by marktheshark marktheshark wrote:

"This man cannot be a true Christian. He's a fascist,"

Robertson has made controversial statements in the past. In October he suggested that the State Department be blown up with a nuclear device. He has also said that feminism encourages women to "kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

This pretty much sums it up.

Incredible.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 15:27
Robertson is such a dipsh*t, Christian Fundamentalists are so stupid.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 15:31
ha ha Pat Robertson make me laugh

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 15:31

that's a generalization, KOL. but that doesn't mean i don't agree with you. 

i think robertson should meet his maker himself if he's so eager to send others to Him.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 16:18
The issue with all this is how different people are treated in different ways.  Robertson can say all this stuff and get away with it scott free.  If a Muslim said anything remotely similar, he would be banged up on incitement to hatred charges, or a similar offence.  The inequity is astounding and worrying.  The likes of Robertson and most of the Fox News anchors (like O'Reilly) should be locked up!
"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 16:47
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

that's a generalization, KOL. but that doesn't mean i don't agree with you. 


i think robertson should meet his maker himself if he's so eager to send others to Him.


I don't think even Robertson is a fundamentalist. I look at a Christian Fundamentalist as like the Amish people here in this country. Anybody who is Christian and has a quest for power like Falwell and Robertson are not funamentalists. This quest for power totally contradicts the Christian faith.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 16:47
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Robertson is such a dipsh*t, Christian Fundamentalists are so stupid.


Why, thank you King of Loss, I pray that your life will be as good as mine.

I'd like to point out that according to Christian prophecy, the church (people who follow) of YHWH and Yahshua, or Jesus, will be the first to be judged.
Epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 17:05

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:



I'd like to point out that according to Christian prophecy, the church (people who follow) of YHWH and Yahshua, or Jesus, will be the first to be judged.

Is this a good or bad thing?  educate me...

"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 17:13

Christianity is biggest disaster.



Edited by M@X
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 18:40

Originally posted by spectral spectral wrote:

The issue with all this is how different people are treated in different ways.  Robertson can say all this stuff and get away with it scott free.  If a Muslim said anything remotely similar, he would be banged up on incitement to hatred charges, or a similar offence.  The inequity is astounding and worrying.  The likes of Robertson and most of the Fox News anchors (like O'Reilly) should be locked up!

Lets S  T  R  E  T  C  H this out a bit.

Such a thing as free speach (sort of) left in this country.  So what he said it on his own show. What muslim has been prosecuted for speaking his mind? Do you have some proof?  As for Robertson oh well, .  All he really said is If the guy is saying that the US is trying to kill him maybe the government should.  He didn't say he was going to do it. Whether or not you agree with that is one thing to prosecute him is something else.  Do what most of us in America do.  Don't pay any attention to him.

 



Edited by Garion81


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 18:47

Robertson, 75, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate

 

David Brock, president of Media Matters, a liberal media watchdog group, said the remarks should discredit Robertson as a spokesman for the religious right.

Glad to see someone with a Prog Rock background has something sensible to say on the matter

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 18:52
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by spectral spectral wrote:

The issue with all this is how different people are treated in different ways.  Robertson can say all this stuff and get away with it scott free.  If a Muslim said anything remotely similar, he would be banged up on incitement to hatred charges, or a similar offence.  The inequity is astounding and worrying.  The likes of Robertson and most of the Fox News anchors (like O'Reilly) should be locked up!

Lets S  T  R  E  T  C  H this out a bit.

Such a thing as free speach (sort of) left in this country.  So what he said it on his own show. What muslim has been prosecuted for speaking his mind? Do you have some proof?  As for Robertson oh well, .  All he really said is If the guy is saying that the US is trying to kill him maybe the government should.  He didn't say he was going to do it. Whether or not you agree with that is one thing to prosecute him is something else.  Do what most of us in America do.  Don't pay any attention to him.

In the UK there are laws/bills relating to incitement to hatred.  if a muslim cleric had uttered words similar to those he would have been arrested.  However, I bet someone similar to Robertson uttering those words in the UK, the police/authorities/govt would not even batter an eyelid.

You're right though, the likes of Robertson should be ignored entirely.

"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 20:06

Look, let's call a spade a spade.  Robertson is not simply out of line, but he is suggesting a course of action that is 180 degrees from any reasonable understanding of Jesus' life and ministry.  To his credit, Robertson has done a great deal of good over decades of time, though most of you probably don't know it, and would not accept it.  However, he has been making these types of statements - irrational, and often extremely non-Christian - with increasing frequency, especially over the past couple of years or so.  All this means is that even Christians are subject to the vagaries of age, and the often accompanying diminution of mental powers, whether as a result of dementia, Alzheimers or other disease or condition.

Clearly nothing excuses this type of comment.  However, it would be equally inexcusable coming from a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist - or an atheist.  In this regard - and because I believe, from watching him over the years, that he is in fact "showing his age" vis-a-vis his mental faculties - I really don't believe his faith or religion has anything to do with it.  Thus, I find the "pot shots" being taken at Christians and Christianity in this particular thread to be inappropriate, offensive and opportunist.

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 21:46
^ Very true. The only group Robertson represents is a small cabal of greedy, media-hungry people with more similarity to suicide cult leaders and talk show hosts than to anyone who truly follows Christian teachings. Trying to get spirituality from his ilk is much like trying to get news from the Limbaugh/ Coulter faction (or life advice from Drs. Phil & Laura)...all exhibiting near-total perversion and abuse, with just enough trappings to hook the unwary.

Boo!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 22:03
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

^ Very true. The only group Robertson represents is a small cabal of
greedy, media-hungry people with more similarity to suicide cult
leaders and talk show hosts than to anyone who truly follows Christian
teachings. Trying to get spirituality from his ilk is much like trying
to get news from the Limbaugh/ Coulter faction (or life advice from
Drs. Phil & Laura)...all exhibiting near-total perversion and
abuse, with just enough trappings to hook the unwary.

Boo!


You got a point James, but I look at people like Rush as more or less entertainers or commentaors and not really preachers. And I certainly don't look at them as journalists either. But the difference between people like them and Robertson and Falwell is that Robertson and his ilk uses a religious faith as a vehicle to push these kind of agendas. To me that's real abuse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 22:11
^ I'm simply saying that what Robertson is doing with spirituality is what the others are doing with journalism, psychology, et cetera. All of these fields require a certain standard to be taken seriously and used to their fullest extent...whereas combining them with entertainment for the purpose of money (or power) degrades the real value of the respective fields for everyone. When that happens too much, people lose faith- even in what may truly be worthwhile.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 22:32

i have no problem with Christianity. i'm Christian, though i rarely attend church.
what i do have a problem with is people like pat robertson trying to make America
a overtly Christian authoritarian state. i think this is incarnated in his recent campaign
to get Judge Roberts,(whom i personally have no big problem with) electedto the
Supreme Court by making is a vote for God vs. a vote for Godless heathens.and with
every action by Evangelicals and fundamentalists to insert as many extremely
religious and what i would fanatical Christians into seats of power to serve their own
special interests, i believe these "devout" Christians are trying to appeal to good
Christians through manipulation and devious methods.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2005 at 22:38
Originally posted by James Lee James Lee wrote:

^ I'm simply saying that what Robertson is doing with spirituality is
what the others are doing with journalism, psychology, et cetera. All
of these fields require a certain standard to be taken seriously and
used to their fullest extent...whereas combining them with
entertainment for the purpose of money (or power) degrades the real
value of the respective fields for everyone. When that happens too
much, people lose faith- even in what may truly be worthwhile.

Well, I don't agree with everthing Rush says. I do listen to him sometimes, but in his defense he has never claimed to be a journalist. He's never taken a journalist class in his life and he doesn't want to be looked upon as one. Sure he's biased as hell and he admits it which is more than I can say about Dan Rather and some others. Now Coulter on the other hand is a different breed. She presents herself as a journalist and turns around to reveal one sided slant. But it goes both ways with other figures like Chris Matthews (a lefty I happened to like) as well. These days if you want "fair and balanced" you have to use that little button on your remote labeled "Channel" and bounce around from Fox to MSNBC to CNN.
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