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Topic ClosedELP epics: which is more lyrically bogus?

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Poll Question: Which epic is more ridiculous?
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Sweetnighter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: ELP epics: which is more lyrically bogus?
    Posted: March 26 2005 at 15:56
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer: Masterful musicians! Storywriters? Not so sure. Here's my interpreted synopsis of the two epics.

Tarkus: Large robotic armadillo drives around and kills things. Born out of some large egg that came from a volcano. Fights other quasi-robotic animals. Major battle with Manticore, a... uh... thing that looks sorta like a tiger... or wolf... or something. Swims away. (See gatefold album for the animated version)

Karn Evil 9: Takes place in future. World sucks. Big freakish futuristic carnival features bishop's heads, strippers, grass, Jesus Christ, plus more. (Jazzy interlude). Big computer seeks to destroy humanity. Humanity fights back. Humanity loses. Computer breaks down. End.

So thats my understanding of the two great ELP epics. If anybody would like to clarify or add details, feel free to do so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 15:57

Quite a comical inturpritation of the two pieces.

Hows about who gives a f**k they are master pieces?



Edited by Zero the hero
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:00

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer: Masterful musicians! Storywriters? Not so sure. Here's my interpreted synopsis of the two epics.

Tarkus: Large robotic armadillo drives around and kills things. Born out of some large egg that came from a volcano. Fights other quasi-robotic animals. Major battle with Manticore, a... uh... thing that looks sorta like a tiger... or wolf... or something. Swims away. (See gatefold album for the animated version)

Karn Evil 9: Takes place in future. World sucks. Big freakish futuristic carnival features bishop's heads, strippers, grass, Jesus Christ, plus more. (Jazzy interlude). Big computer seeks to destroy humanity. Humanity fights back. Humanity loses. Computer breaks down. End.

So thats my understanding of the two great ELP epics. If anybody would like to clarify or add details, feel free to do so.

....that pretty much sums it up. Not actactly Fish, Gabriel or Hammill..eh?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:03
Originally posted by Zero the hero Zero the hero wrote:

Quite a comical inturpritation of the two pieces.

Hows about who gives a f**k they are master pieces?

And the crowded chanted in unison:

"are you Karnevil9 in disguise?" LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:07
Have you listened to much prog, Sweetnighter? I only ask because analysing the lyrics of prog epics expecting to find anything even vaguely coherent is being a tad optimistic. Granted, Sinfields lyrics aren't exactly meaningful, but they fit the music perfectly. Compared Close To The Edge, Supper's Ready, 2112, everything Gong ever recorded, King Crimson's serial employment of comically awful lyricists and Magma inventing their own language to sing cosmic nonsense in ELPs epics make perfect sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:07
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Zero the hero Zero the hero wrote:

Quite a comical inturpritation of the two pieces.

Hows about who gives a f**k they are master pieces?

And the crowded chanted in unison:

"are you Karnevil9 in disguise?" LOL



No, he's got a good point... we listen for the music more so than for the lyrics, and thats why we love these pieces of music, but I just thought that bringing up how stupid the lyrics of these pieces are would make for interesting discussion.

What I would ask KE9 is.... "how do you know where you've been in time?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:08
Not everything has to be serious. That's the problem with popular music. It's so confined within its own limits that all it can sing about is love. Boring if you ask me. ELP, along with other bands like Jethro Tull were able to make their lyrics fun, while keeping a certain level of professionalism within their music.

That said Tarkus is pretty wacky. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:10
I love both epics, but from a lyrical standpoint, Takrus is way more pretentious, but in a good way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:11
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Zero the hero Zero the hero wrote:

Quite a comical inturpritation of the two pieces.

Hows about who gives a f**k they are master pieces?

And the crowded chanted in unison:

"are you Karnevil9 in disguise?" LOL

bloody hope not

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:12

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

compared to.... 2112,  cosmic nonsense in ELPs epics make perfect sense.

Ever actually listened to 2112 Sausages?Confused

Or did you notice i was lurking in the background?Wink

LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:19
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Have you listened to much prog, Sweetnighter? I only ask because analysing the lyrics of prog epics expecting to find anything even vaguely coherent is being a tad optimistic. Granted, Sinfields lyrics aren't exactly meaningful, but they fit the music perfectly. Compared Close To The Edge, Supper's Ready, 2112, everything Gong ever recorded, King Crimson's serial employment of comically awful lyricists and Magma inventing their own language to sing cosmic nonsense in ELPs epics make perfect sense.


Good point, but in my opinion ELP is really the worst of the worst. The only ELP song lyrics I enjoy are on "From the Beginning". For your other examples... CTTE, as well as pretty much all Yes material, doesn't use words to tell a story in the same sense. Anderson's lyrics serve more to add to the sound of the music more than anything else... its a spiritual thing, and thats what Anderson has always been about. Yes didn't really tell a plot-based story until Gates of Delirium and than again on Turn of the Century, and even those pieces were loosely constructed. I guess what I'm saying is that it wasn't Yes' intention to tell a in-depth story, whereas ELP's creation of a mechanized armadillo seems to have had some thought put into it, and it fell flat on its face. And Supper's Ready? 2112? Whats wrong with those? No, they're not amazing, but their leagues ahead of Tarkus! 2112 especially, that has a clear plot direction, which is helped by notes on the album anyway. Fountains of Lamneth, even more so than 2112, has a very easily comprehended story as well, even after a first listen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:19
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

compared to.... 2112,  cosmic nonsense in ELPs epics make perfect sense.

Ever actually listened to 2112 Sausages?Confused

Or did you notice i was lurking in the background?Wink

LOL

Let's see - in a dystopian future society, somebody finds an electric guitar behind a fountain, plugs it in and thereby bestows the gift of freedom on the human race - is that a fair summary? Love it to death, btw, but it's a bit hard to take seriously.

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:30

Kudos for making this poll at least different than others, and for injecting humor in your synopses.

I went with Tarkus, since KE9 seems infinitely more feasible. Well, kinda...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:31
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

compared to.... 2112,  cosmic nonsense in ELPs epics make perfect sense.

Ever actually listened to 2112 Sausages?Confused

Or did you notice i was lurking in the background?Wink

LOL

Let's see - in a dystopian future society, somebody finds an electric guitar behind a fountain, plugs it in and thereby bestows the gift of freedom on the human race - is that a fair summary? Love it to death, btw, but it's a bit hard to take seriously.

Not a fair summary,no.You're just saying that to wind me up and I aint bitingTongue

LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:33
Tarkus is silly lyrically, but lake sings it perfectly. and hey I love that song.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:36

[/QUOTE]

Let's see - in a dystopian future society, somebody finds an electric guitar behind a fountain, plugs it in and thereby bestows the gift of freedom on the human race - is that a fair summary? Love it to death, btw, but it's a bit hard to take seriously.

[/QUOTE]

Not a fair summary,no.You're just saying that to wind me up and I aint bitingTongue

LOL

[/QUOTE]

Arse. Well, it was worth a go.

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 16:38
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Let's see - in a dystopian future society, somebody finds an electric guitar behind a fountain, plugs it in and thereby bestows the gift of freedom on the human race - is that a fair summary? Love it to death, btw, but it's a bit hard to take seriously.

[/QUOTE]

Not a fair summary,no.You're just saying that to wind me up and I aint bitingTongue

LOL

[/QUOTE]

Arse. Well, it was worth a go.

[/QUOTE]

Evil Smile




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 17:27

ELP bashing time again, is it?

 

I like both albums a lot, and don’t find the concepts or lyrics difficult to digest (in fact, to the contrary). I agree with Syzygy’s first post: neither ‘Tarkus’ nor ‘Karn Evil 9’ is any more bizarre than a lot of Prog Rock epics (or epic stories, for that matter). By the way, I don’t think Sinfield was involved with the ‘Tarkus’ lyrics.

 

‘Tarkus’ is supposedly partly allegorical; apparently Lake, who wrote the lyrics, said in an interview shortly after it was released:

 

"It's about the futility of conflict expressed in (the) context.. of soldiers and war. But it's broader than that. The words are about revolution that's gone, that has happened. Where has it got anybody? Nowhere."

 

Emerson said in an interview with a magazine:

 

"William Neal was an art student and he actually popped by Advision Studios when we were recording Tarkus and before we had a name for the music that I'd written. He came by with a set of artwork and I arrived there, took one look at it and thought it was amazing. It fully complimented the music. William had painted this mechanical creature and there were a lot of other extraordinary mythical creatures like the Manticore Lion's head with the Scorpion's tail, all incorporated into mad imaginary, really, and I think we pieced it together. It was almost like the painting was made to fit the music and the music was made to fit the painting, we could see some sort of surreal story line. Although it wasn't really portrayed in the lyrics, it was enough for the imagination to take over. I don't know if you or your readers read Terry Pratchett, but it had something of that element in it, or rather, there's a lot of what Terry Pratchett writes in his works, in Tarkus! But without the humour in it! (laughs!)"

 

There is quite a good write-up of the ‘Tarkus’ piece, including lyrics, at the following Web site:

 

http://www.hostultra.com/~tarkus/ELP/elp.php

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 17:44

Originally posted by topographic2112 topographic2112 wrote:

I love both epics, but from a lyrical standpoint, Takrus is way more pretentious, but in a good way.

I feel the contrary. I find KE9 much more pretentious, since it intends to grasp a major amount of subjects in the context of a future (present?) social context in which consummerism, mass media, personal computers and sadism/voyeurism are the overwhelming force of humankind, leading it to mora ldestruction and even a final confrontation with the machines. Man provokes the rise and rebellion of machines, since they were made according to the image of man's own ego.

Meanwhile, 'Tarkus' depicts a tale of war (with the 'Battlefield' sectio nserving as an elegy for those who died and keep on daying in some war somewhere in the world), emulating the fantastic grandeur of ancient myths. Here the lyrics are less impressive. But they're not bad or silly (try Wetton's lyrics for the Asia albums, or lake's lyrics for his solo albums, those were really silly, formulaic, even corny at times), IMHO.

Regards.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 18:29

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer: Masterful musicians! Storywriters? Not so sure. Here's my interpreted synopsis of the two epics.

Tarkus: Large robotic armadillo drives around and kills things. Born out of some large egg that came from a volcano. Fights other quasi-robotic animals. Major battle with Manticore, a... uh... thing that looks sorta like a tiger... or wolf... or something. Swims away. (See gatefold album for the animated version)

Karn Evil 9: Takes place in future. World sucks. Big freakish futuristic carnival features bishop's heads, strippers, grass, Jesus Christ, plus more. (Jazzy interlude). Big computer seeks to destroy humanity. Humanity fights back. Humanity loses. Computer breaks down. End.

So thats my understanding of the two great ELP epics. If anybody would like to clarify or add details, feel free to do so.

Did you actually listen to the music or can you only understand by reading the pictures...

BTW... your version of  KE9 sounds like someone at Battlestar Galatica must of been an ELP fan....

THIS IS ELP
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