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    Posted: March 24 2005 at 04:54

Happy Easter to Everyone and Soon my Birthday is Coming Up Soon, I Won't Say My Age, and has Anyone Else Got a Birthday Coming Up??
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Points: 953 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 05:09
no.. I do have an easter coming up

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Points: 762 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 05:35
Happy Easter Progman.
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Points: 3888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 05:46
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POO...H 
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Points: 1338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:02

I TO WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TOP WISH EVERYONE A HAPPY EASTER AND TO ALL CHRISTIAN FORUM MEMBERS(AND THERE ARE MORE THAN YOU THINK) I WOULD LIKE TO WISH YOU A HOLY EASTER AND REMEMBER..

EASTER IS NOT ABOUT BUNNIES AND EGGS ITS ABOUT THE DEATH AND RESSURECTION OF OUR LORD, WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT.

 

HAVE A GOOD ONE PEOPLE!!!
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Points: 953 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 06:21

Dude.. what is the relation between the death and ressurection.. and chocalate eggs?

I'm just curious.. not trying to offend or anything!

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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:05
Originally posted by dude dude wrote:

I TO WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TOP WISH EVERYONE A HAPPY EASTER AND TO ALL CHRISTIAN FORUM MEMBERS(AND THERE ARE MORE THAN YOU THINK) I WOULD LIKE TO WISH YOU A HOLY EASTER AND REMEMBER..

EASTER IS NOT ABOUT BUNNIES AND EGGS ITS ABOUT THE DEATH AND RESSURECTION OF OUR LORD, WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT.

 

HAVE A GOOD ONE PEOPLE!!!



Actually at first it was a Jewish celebration, the Pascha, I think it was about the release of the Jews from Egypt, so they were ordered by God to celebrate that.

Maani probably knows the relation between Pascha in the Yeshua-sense and Pascha in the Jewish sense, maybe it has to do with same dates or so.

Maani?
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Points: 1338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 07:41

no offence intended, none taken RADIO

that is my point, there is(or should be) no real connection,  in fact the origin of easter as we know it(as opposed to the death and ressurection of christ which i beleive is a different issue) has its roots in paganism and has a variaty of sources.

the word easter is not found anywhere in scripture and most likely has its foundations in the worship of the old german(or more correctly TEUTONIC) goddess EASTRE.

much of what we traditionally associate with Easter in terms of egg symbolism goes back even further to babylonion religious practices(as well,it is a fertility symbol in other cultures) and is associated with the goddess SEMIRAMIS.

As with Christmas..another tradition rooted in paganism easter has found its way into what we considers as the "christian tradition"

there are a number of sites that will explain this in greater detail than i can (my typing finger tires easily) here is one  

 http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.htmld

but that is why i said that the death and ressurection is MORE important than such silly things as eggs and chocolate.

an intersting site to show that christ death was about this time of year is.

http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/33ad.htm

please understand i am not an expert but one who is learning but i hope this information is interesting  and helpful

BY THE WAY THIS IS MY FIRST AND LAST comment on this subject i do not wish to get into arguments as i beleive this format is not a good one for such complex issues.



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Points: 953 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 09:16

I just was curious..

and you're absoluteley right.. I really have an different feeling of this all. It should be very interesting stuff for you too! Maybe you've read about Rudolf Steiner, hans stolp? even Elisabeth Kubler Röss writes about it! I've got some stuff about it here.. in the german language.. http://www.hansstolp.nl/eso_chr.php (IF YOU CAN'T READ GERMAN, I'LL TRANSLATE IT!)

Don't take the bible literally! Almost the whole bible is symbolism. I strongly suggest "esoterical bible reading, Jezus of Nazareth" from Hans Stolp.. It made a lot clear to me. I was an sceptic little kid before reading this book.

Just a little something about the church, Jezus never meant to make, create or something like that of an church! Altough his word had to be spread.. He came to make things clear, he came with an message witch was overflown with spirituality, there's so much of this whole message that he gave about spiritism that we aren't ready for yet.. I think that there are already people who aren't taking me sereously.. I wasn't taking my ex-girlfriends dad sereously either.. in the beginning of his speaking.. He was the one who tought me a lot about the esoteric bible.. I hope this speaking did some good, and again.. I'll never try to offend anyone here.. or have such intentions!

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Points: 3888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 09:16

Dude, You raised the subject ... and closed it down : the Alpha and the Omega, so to speak.

Happy Easter



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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 09:39
Originally posted by Radioactive Toy Radioactive Toy wrote:

I just was curious..

and you're absoluteley right.. I really have an different feeling of this all. It should be very interesting stuff for you too! Maybe you've read about Rudolf Steiner, hans stolp? even Elisabeth Kubler Röss writes about it! I've got some stuff about it here.. in the german language.. http://www.hansstolp.nl/eso_chr.php (IF YOU CAN'T READ GERMAN, I'LL TRANSLATE IT!)

Don't take the bible literally! Almost the whole bible is symbolism. I strongly suggest "esoterical bible reading, Jezus of Nazareth" from Hans Stolp.. It made a lot clear to me. I was an sceptic little kid before reading this book.

Just a little something about the church, Jezus never meant to make, create or something like that of an church! Altough his word had to be spread.. He came to make things clear, he came with an message witch was overflown with spirituality, there's so much of this whole message that he gave about spiritism that we aren't ready for yet.. I think that there are already people who aren't taking me sereously.. I wasn't taking my ex-girlfriends dad sereously either.. in the beginning of his speaking.. He was the one who tought me a lot about the esoteric bible.. I hope this speaking did some good, and again.. I'll never try to offend anyone here.. or have such intentions!



Even when reading the Bible literally, there's a lot of stuff going on with spiritism. Yeshua made this clear by announcing the coming of the Holy Spirit. Not the whole of the Bible is symbolism, to say that is to deny the historic accounting as in Acts or the four 'Evangeliën'.(English?)

Yeshua says literally, the Church is My Body. And His Body is every person that believes He is the Son of God. That is what He says, literally.

In fact, we ARE ready for everything He announces. And according to prophecies, we don't have that much time to 'become' ready either.

As to Dude, the Dutch word for Easter is Pasen. It's much more resembling the Jewish Pascha. I don't know how this difference came into being, but it proves that the name of it all has not so much to do with the paganism or not with Easter. Christmas is another story entirely. It's on the exact date of winter solstice, the birthday of an idol, a false god, Mithras in this case. Combined with the paganistic symbols as a pine tree, a star on it, and a 'Saint' Claus.

Edit: I read that site about esoteric Christianity, and it is nothing but un-Christian talk. It takes the three parts of man as Yeshua told it, being the Soul, Spirit(from God) and the Flesh, and turns it into a paganistic explanation. In fact, it points to Buddha, which is a false god in Christian teaching, and that is in this nothing more than a demon.

Yeshua taught AGAINST reincarnation, as He defeats death, meaning, eternal life. In eternal life, there is no reincarnation. Also, the Kingdom of God is NOT some 'way of life' it is the realm in which God again lives with his people. The message that this is a way of life is diametrically opposed to books as Revelations.


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Points: 953 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 10:31
Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

Originally posted by Radioactive Toy Radioactive Toy wrote:

I just was curious..

and you're absoluteley right.. I really have an different feeling of this all. It should be very interesting stuff for you too! Maybe you've read about Rudolf Steiner, hans stolp? even Elisabeth Kubler Röss writes about it! I've got some stuff about it here.. in the german language.. http://www.hansstolp.nl/eso_chr.php (IF YOU CAN'T READ GERMAN, I'LL TRANSLATE IT!)

Don't take the bible literally! Almost the whole bible is symbolism. I strongly suggest "esoterical bible reading, Jezus of Nazareth" from Hans Stolp.. It made a lot clear to me. I was an sceptic little kid before reading this book.

Just a little something about the church, Jezus never meant to make, create or something like that of an church! Altough his word had to be spread.. He came to make things clear, he came with an message witch was overflown with spirituality, there's so much of this whole message that he gave about spiritism that we aren't ready for yet.. I think that there are already people who aren't taking me sereously.. I wasn't taking my ex-girlfriends dad sereously either.. in the beginning of his speaking.. He was the one who tought me a lot about the esoteric bible.. I hope this speaking did some good, and again.. I'll never try to offend anyone here.. or have such intentions!



Even when reading the Bible literally, there's a lot of stuff going on with spiritism. Yeshua made this clear by announcing the coming of the Holy Spirit. Not the whole of the Bible is symbolism, to say that is to deny the historic accounting as in Acts or the four 'Evangeliën'.(English?)

Yeshua says literally, the Church is My Body. And His Body is every person that believes He is the Son of God. That is what He says, literally.

Church in wich way? There was NO church at that time, Isn't church meant as religion, or even in a way that he IS an church!? that he won't need an building of stone and wood for God??

In fact, we ARE ready for everything He announces. And according to prophecies, we don't have that much time to 'become' ready either.

We've got all the time! why would you think otherwise, of the esotiricism? You're really showing it right now...  

As to Dude, the Dutch word for Easter is Pasen. It's much more resembling the Jewish Pascha. I don't know how this difference came into being, but it proves that the name of it all has not so much to do with the paganism or not with Easter. Christmas is another story entirely. It's on the exact date of winter solstice, the birthday of an idol, a false god, Mithras in this case. Combined with the paganistic symbols as a pine tree, a star on it, and a 'Saint' Claus.

Edit: I read that site about esoteric Christianity, and it is nothing but un-Christian talk. It takes the three parts of man as Yeshua told it, being the Soul, Spirit(from God) and the Flesh, and turns it into a paganistic explanation. In fact, it points to Buddha, which is a false god in Christian teaching, and that is in this nothing more than a demon.

Un Christian talk? Who Said that it is Unchristian? Who said Buddha is an false god? Who said that Buddha was a god AT ALL? What is the paganism about this explanation? And paganism in wich eyes? the ones of the pope? the true disipline of the church, not religion itself!

Yeshua taught AGAINST reincarnation, as He defeats death, meaning, eternal life. In eternal life, there is no reincarnation. Also, the Kingdom of God is NOT some 'way of life' it is the realm in which God again lives with his people. The message that this is a way of life is diametrically opposed to books as Revelations.

How would you describe god? An man ? an woman? I think god is inside of us, Just as the devil! As we can choose for Sin same just as much as Enlightning! And we have eternal life, strange as it sounds.. You can almost see it as an snake, who losen his skin once at the time. We will rise and desend on earth, (the same as Jezus incarnated some days after his death) and every time, we shape our soul within that process. but no there is no reincarnation, we are eternal! And the kingdom of God IS a way of life! The kingdom god is for everyone!

I'm not an pagan.. If you think so, think so!.. But I would like to mention that I've seen all sides of the story, you've did not. If you're willing to read the book, (I'm not telling you to do so) please tell me afterwards what you think..

Thanks, once again.. I am NOT trying to offend!

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Church in wich way? There was NO church at that time, Isn't church meant as religion, or even in a way that he IS an church!? that he won't need an building of stone and wood for God??

-just as Yeshua says, the church are all the people believing He is the Son of God.

We've got all the time! why would you think otherwise, of the esotiricism? You're really showing it right now... 

-According to Christianity, the world we live in will end, and everyone will be judged.

Un Christian talk? Who Said that it is Unchristian? Who said Buddha is an false god? Who said that Buddha was a god AT ALL? What is the paganism about this explanation? And paganism in wich eyes? the ones of the pope? the true disipline of the church, not religion itself!

-In fact, it is Yeshua who says it is unChristian, being against reincarnation, explaining that one should serve no one, no god, no man, except the Christian God. It is paganism in claiming that Yeshua taught reincarnation, as is said in the link you prescribed.

How would you describe god? An man ? an woman? I think god is inside of us, Just as the devil! As we can choose for Sin same just as much as Enlightning! And we have eternal life, strange as it sounds.. You can almost see it as an snake, who losen his skin once at the time. We will rise and desend on earth, (the same as Jezus incarnated some days after his death) and every time, we shape our soul within that process. but no there is no reincarnation, we are eternal! And the kingdom of God IS a way of life! The kingdom god is for everyone!

-Why come up with a selfmade explanation when Yeshua is clear about it? I underlined the part which makes it clear it is only your explanation. When we turn to what Yeshua said, we find that God sent His Holy Spirit to all who believe in Yeshua as the Son of God. In that sense, He is inside us, but that is not the only place He 'is'. We do not simply have eternal life, we only have eternal life when turning to Yeshua for forgiveness every day. Johannes 3: 15 :

'so that everyone, who believes in Him, have eternal life'
and 3: 16:
' so that every one, who believes in Him, doesn't become lost, but have eternal life'

Only those believing in Yeshua have eternal life, so it is not for everyone. Also, the kingdom of God is what is described in Revelations 21 and 22. It clearly talks about a new world, not simply a way of life.


Now, we have established, that if you believe the above, it is in disagreement with the Bible, and thus with Christianity. That does make you a pagan.

I also know of you intent not to offend, I am certainly not offended in any way. Merely stating another side of the story. Which i think is necessary ofcourse.

Also, I am dissappointed in the fact that you state me to not having seen every side of the story, while you do not even know in the faintest how much I have seen in this respect. Is it simply because I do not agree and therefore have to have seen less in the available views? That would be faulty logic indeed, no?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 11:57
Originally posted by PROGMAN PROGMAN wrote:

Happy Easter to Everyone and Soon my Birthday is Coming Up Soon, I Won't Say My Age, and has Anyone Else Got a Birthday Coming Up??



Happy Easter to you too, Progman 
My birthday (the physical one anyway) - is coming up (4/4)...

I stopped celebrating my birthday years ago (gettin' too old), but in my heart I'm somewhere between 28 and 32 



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Points: 953 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 12:08

Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

Church in wich way? There was NO church at that time, Isn't church meant as religion, or even in a way that he IS an church!? that he won't need an building of stone and wood for God??

-just as Yeshua says, the church are all the people believing He is the Son of God.

We've got all the time! why would you think otherwise, of the esotiricism? You're really showing it right now... 

-According to Christianity, the world we live in will end, and everyone will be judged.

And that's the point made, at least the one that I believe in. We still have to wonder around this world. This world will end. Once we've learnt the message of christ! before that, we will reincarnate and learn piece by piece of the christ within us, this line will go on below here

Un Christian talk? Who Said that it is Unchristian? Who said Buddha is an false god? Who said that Buddha was a god AT ALL? What is the paganism about this explanation? And paganism in wich eyes? the ones of the pope? the true disipline of the church, not religion itself!

-In fact, it is Yeshua who says it is unChristian, being against reincarnation, explaining that one should serve no one, no god, no man, except the Christian God. It is paganism in claiming that Yeshua taught reincarnation, as is said in the link you prescribed.

Yeshua will not speak of reincarnation, but only about eternal life. Why? Because life on earth is just an small thing in our lives. Our lives will go on eternal, not in our clothes of flesh! And the world we live in WILL end But not in an Apocalypse way! This world will end for each individual on an other time, the only ones wich were ready for this world yet, were Buddha, Maria and Jezus..


How would you describe god? An man ? an woman? I think god is inside of us, Just as the devil! As we can choose for Sin same just as much as Enlightning! And we have eternal life, strange as it sounds.. You can almost see it as an snake, who losen his skin once at the time. We will rise and desend on earth, (the same as Jezus incarnated some days after his death) and every time, we shape our soul within that process. but no there is no reincarnation, we are eternal! And the kingdom of God IS a way of life! The kingdom god is for everyone!

-Why come up with a selfmade explanation when Yeshua is clear about it? I underlined the part which makes it clear it is only your explanation. When we turn to what Yeshua said, we find that God sent His Holy Spirit to all who believe in Yeshua as the Son of God. In that sense, He is inside us, but that is not the only place He 'is'. We do not simply have eternal life, we only have eternal life when turning to Yeshua for forgiveness every day. Johannes 3: 15 :

'so that everyone, who believes in Him, have eternal life'
and 3: 16:
' so that every one, who believes in Him, doesn't become lost, but have eternal life'

Only those believing in Yeshua have eternal life, so it is not for everyone. Also, the kingdom of God is what is described in Revelations 21 and 22. It clearly talks about a new world, not simply a way of life.

JUST to make things clear, I've said I THINK, in a same way as your vision of this story an opinion is...

Having eternal life, It's much more then just saying sorry Jezus every day.. And it's not just believing what he said!! It's doing what he says!! If you undersand everything he said, then you'll have eternal life... Then our lives on earth are over!

This world will be opened by yourself, by your way of life! Not untill you've opened your eyes you'll find the way to walk to the other world. The bible is the map... (FIGURATIVE!)

-----------------------

Now, we have established, that if you believe the above, it is in disagreement with the Bible, and thus with Christianity. That does make you a pagan.

It's not in disagreement with the bible, It's just not the words exactly.. But then again, we aren't computers.. we have an ability to understand some things like, an moral of an story, etc... I'm not an pagan, I will not judge.. for I will be judged myself! (those things are karma.. Witch Jezus himself is teaching us of!)

I also know of you intent not to offend, I am certainly not offended in any way. Merely stating another side of the story. Which i think is necessary ofcourse.

The same way as I think MY side is necassary!

Also, I am dissappointed in the fact that you state me to not having seen every side of the story, while you do not even know in the faintest how much I have seen in this respect. Is it simply because I do not agree and therefore have to have seen less in the available views? That would be faulty logic indeed, no?

You're right, still, ah nevermind


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Points: 1261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 13:09

well as much respect for spirituality as i have, im ready to celebrate a completely commercial easter! and enjoy it very much!

You know what my mom is cooking for this sunday when I head up to her place?
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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 13:21
Originally posted by Radioactive Toy Radioactive Toy wrote:

And that's the point made, at least the one that I believe in. We still have to wonder around this world. This world will end. Once we've learnt the message of christ! before that, we will reincarnate and learn piece by piece of the christ within us, this line will go on below here

Yeshua will not speak of reincarnation, but only about eternal life. Why? Because life on earth is just an small thing in our lives. Our lives will go on eternal, not in our clothes of flesh! And the world we live in WILL end But not in an Apocalypse way! This world will end for each individual on an other time, the only ones wich were ready for this world yet, were Buddha, Maria and Jezus..

JUST to make things clear, I've said I THINK, in a same way as your vision of this story an opinion is...

Having eternal life, It's much more then just saying sorry Jezus every day.. And it's not just believing what he said!! It's doing what he says!! If you undersand everything he said, then you'll have eternal life... Then our lives on earth are over!

This world will be opened by yourself, by your way of life! Not untill you've opened your eyes you'll find the way to walk to the other world. The bible is the map... (FIGURATIVE!)

It's not in disagreement with the bible, It's just not the words exactly.. But then again, we aren't computers.. we have an ability to understand some things like, an moral of an story, etc... I'm not an pagan, I will not judge.. for I will be judged myself! (those things are karma.. Witch Jezus himself is teaching us of!)



By alinea:

-Yeshua never says we will reincarnate. Yeshua says we will be reborn just by believing in Him as the Son. That we are forgiven as soon as we ask Him to.

-Here you talk again about Buddha, him being an idol, diametrically opposed to Christianity. Maria is someone who has been lifted up from the Bible while the Scripture hardly says ANYTHING about her. And saying the world will not end in an Apocalyptic way is completely ignoring Revelations, making you pagan indeed. Not by my judgement, but by comparison with Scripture.

-Only my 'vision' is careful argumentation using the Bible as basis, the basis of Christianity.

-Yeshua teaches us to ask for forgiveness, but warns us that if we do certain things, we will not be forgiven. It's not about understanding Him, which is futile, as we will never have the intellect of wisdom of God. We can instead, for our imperfection, ask forgiveness and be absolved, if we do not commit sins which are unforgivable such as blashpemy of the Holy Spirit and such. you are mistaken in saying that asking for forgiveness is just saying sorry. It's living our sins before The Son, acknowledging that we were wrong and our thus 'unclean' and need to be cleansed in order to do our Lord's bidding. The Holy Spirit will change you if you believe Yeshua to be the Son in that you will do that. That is what Yeshua taught.

-Your talk about walking to the other world borders on occultism and spiritism, something which is naturally opposed to Christianity. Yeshua Himself calls things as such evil. I bid you to watch your step, as we are taught by Paul to always test everything by the Holy Spirit.

-Your words are in disagreement with the Bible. Your saying that we can't find the moral of the story is in disagreement. We are taught to use the Holy Spirit to understand the meaning. If you do not grasp that, that by all means, you are not truely a Christian by defenition. It is not I who am calling you pagan, it is the Bible which describes the words from your site as false teachings.

Finally, I would like to add something, I have deliberately not spoken about karma, because in a sense, according to the defenition of karma, Christianity has something similar. Certain sins will not be forgotten, and if you have not asked for forgiveness than you are by no means free of your sins. This is a form of karma by the definition. Though karma in itself is a Buddhistic word I believe, which is a false teaching according to Christianity.
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Points: 5187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 13:46

Enjoy all the mystical mumbo-jumbo you want if it makes you truly happy.

Remember this though;religion is usually the word of one individual interpreted to fit whatever area or person it wishes to permeate.Following the mantra of individuals who lived thousands of years ago is fraught with problems.It is impossible to know the true meaning of words spread across the centuries,translated into many different languages and using confusing idiom.How do you seperate the hyperbole and rhetoric from the authentic teachings? You cant.

Know your own way and be true to that. All this karma and spiritulism bullsh*t just f**ks with your mind.



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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2005 at 14:03
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

.It is impossible to know the true meaning of words spread across the centuries,translated into many different languages and using confusing idiom.How do you seperate the hyperbole and rhetoric from the authentic teachings?



Holy Spirit
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