non prog metal vote

I find Metallica and their ilk tedious and soulless.

They are not to my taste.I have heard all their albums and they do nothing for me.If you criticise something on this forum you are automatically accused of either never having heard any of the band's music or having an axe to grind.I do not like Metallica's style at all.I do believe that I have heard it all before, but that is because they do not affect me positively-there is nothing wrong with this view,otherwise everybody would like every kind of music.

And the whole point of a discussion is that people have differing opinions - just because yours are held to question doesn't mean that they're being shot down in flames, it's simply that someone else has different opinions to your own and wishes to discuss salient points.

You've made another salient point that I cannot agree with - I am puzzled as to where you could have heard Metallica's style before (unless you mean Metal Church). I am simply curious, and wish to know what "Kill 'Em All" reminds you of, as it came completely out of the blue as far as I can tell - there was simply very little by way of precedent for Metallica's thrashing style.

Of course, the inspirations are evident - Diamond Head, Motorhead, Budgie, Hawkwind, Black Sabbath, Killing Joke et al - but what I'm getting at is that the style Metallica evolved was unique, albeit with the usual bandwagon jumpers close behind, and inspiration to just about every metal band these days (even if they don't openly admit it - there's more prestige to saying you're inspired by Rush, but less evidence in most bands' music).

It's not a case of axe-grinding, just basic, open curiosity.

Cert sees things in them that I dont. He also occasionally has difficulty from discerning the difference between "opinion" and "fact".

er... actually, I hear things that you don't... maybe I should lay off the cactus juice

As to the last comment, we all have difficulty drawing the line, and I know I blur it occasionally, but I'm not going to write "IMO" every time I express an opinion.

If he believes more prog-metal bands have been influenced by Metallica than Rush,that is his opinion.

I just use my ears and hear the openly stolen riffs.

Being an avid "browser" in my local newsagent,I have read many, many musician's magazines and from what I can see, the percentage of prog-metal musicians who cite Rush as their major influence is so high as you can virtually,but not actually,say all of them.This I cant prove,but have no reason to be dishonest or mistaken about this.To me it is a fact.

Yes, but the number of those bands who incorporate Rush-style riffs in their music can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. I'm guessing, of course - I just haven't heard many bands that remind me in any way of Rush.

The thrashing style that Metallica pioneered is evident almost everywhere in prog and nu-metal.

As for growling vocals......wtf is that all about?

I wrote a paper about that for my 20th Century music exams - what I said boils down to the fact that the music is growly, so the vocals were made growly to suit it. I find Death (early albums) particularly funny in that respect. I got a starred first for that paper 

(doesn't mean I was right, of course - I just argued the case and the examiner agreed. Easiest and most fun paper I ever sat!)

If this view is symptomatic of my lack of understanding of this particular sub-genre, then so be it.

It is - it shows that you haven't listened to much of it. Your call, of course, there are many here who don't even accept prog metal as a sub-genre of prog - and I can sympathise with that.

I just think that, since the music is well over 20 years old now, you might find something of interest in there. If nothing else, I'd recommend a listen to "Master of Puppets" and "...And Justice for All". Then listen to "Images and Words" by Dream Theater - and laugh at the amount of plagiarism.

As I said - if you can think of a single pre-1986 album that does everything you hear on "Master of Puppets", or a single album that pre-empts "Kill 'Em All" (apart from Metal Church's debut, which I know about) - I'd be very interested to hear it to fill in the gaps in my historical knowledge. I truly believe it is a classic that has yet to get the wide acceptance it deserves. I can, of course, elucidate further...

I have a recording of my mother-in-law's dog yapping along to Paranoid- if you want to take it off my hands,Cert!

You're too kind. But no thanks - I've already got a copy of Meddle...

Pixel Pirate wrote: Bloody hell! Is that what Halford looks like these days?!

Ram-who?

Iron maiden, followed by judas priest!

iron maiden - killers is the best metal album!

black sabbath should be there!

very honorable mention: ACCEPT!!!!!!!!!

and, if you don't name it metal progressive , MERCYFUL FATE!

ac/dc is not metal