Prog and Politics

Reed Lover wrote: Well done John,21 yr old and already a cynical bastard.

Yeah, well where one sees cynicism, someone else sees realism.  Personally, I find leftist politics a bit too idealistic for my tastes... I just don't find it feasible.  Perhaps if the world was a perfect place, it could work, but I don't see things that way.

I'm for politics of accountability and self-reliance, although I'm sure that makes me a fascist to some... 

Anyway, politics is too divisive a topic...  at least we can find common ground in good music, which is what we should be really focusing on.  Still, this thread so far has been pretty civil and interesting... 

I never been left oriented, but not for lack of heart, but because in a country where you see what a left terrorist group as Shinning Path does to 50,000 innocent and most of them extreamely poor people you can't accept that and they create a reaction against the system.

I was once interviewed in the University when I won an election (I was in politics) and a guy from a leftist  panflet told me the first part of the quote, he said

"If you are not a communist in your teens then you have no heart. How old are you? I was 19. A lot of people laughed, but I had already read the quote and answered him the second part, If you're still a communist at your fourty's then you have no brain. I think you're 42 or 43, am I right?

The guy lost the temper, called me facist and wrote I had insulted him. One of thereasons why I don't like the press people.

Iván

Reed Lover wrote: John Gargo wrote: Gotta love those Neil Peart lyrics!!! Live for yourself -- there's no one else More worth living for Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more Well done John,21 yr old and already a cynical bastard. What about Peart's lyrics in Territories: The whole wide world An endless universe Yet we keep looking through The eyeglass in reverse Don't feed the people But we feed the machines Can't really feel What international means Better the pride that resides In a citizen of the world Than the pride that divides When a colourful rag is unfurled libertine or selfish?

I guess 'Anthem' was inspired by Ayn Rands book. Her philosophy on life - Objectivism - was quite selfish on the surface. There seemed little room for charity and benevolence. It seems to centre around self achievment and putting your own happiness at the core of your motivation for living. But I dont believe it to be a 'right wing' idea. There is nothing in her ideas about NOT respecting the happiness or well being of others.

www.aynrand.org

Reed, this is more a response to John Cargo..

Syzygy wrote: John Gargo wrote: I guess 'Anthem' was inspired by Ayn Rands book. Her philosophy on life - Objectivism - was quite selfish on the surface. There seemed little room for charity and benevolence. It seems to centre around self achievment and putting your own happiness at the core of your motivation for living. But I dont believe it to be a 'right wing' idea. There is nothing in her ideas about NOT respecting the happiness or well being of others. www.aynrand.org Reed, this is more a response to John Cargo.. Ayn Rand's 'philosophy' fused a misreading of Nietzsche (similar to that which inspired the 3rd Reich) with some of Adam Smith's less workable notions, all delivered via a prose style which makes 'The Da Vinci Code' read like Joseph Conrad. But apart from that, and making Mussolini look like a bleeding heart liberal, I'd recommend her work to anyone.

Ps...Birmingham

Once again Reed, your mastery of the subtleties of debate and your flawless command of symbolic logic have undermined my most carefully reasoned arguments

smug manc git

Anyway, back on my soap box - Ayn Rand belongs in the same circle of Hell as white supremacists, MENSA, the British National Party, Jean Marie Le Pen, Pol Pot, UKIP, Uncle Joe Stalin, Eugene Terreblanche, Mao Tse Tung, Oswald Mosely and Idi Amin (to name but a few).

Approach her alleged ideas with extreme caution.

It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.

Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...

Reed Lover wrote: It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant. Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...

Read The Mismeasure of Man - Stephen Jay Gould.

The only thing IQ tests measure is the ability to pass IQ tests.

Personally, I'm a paid up member of DENSA and I'm proud of it! And Manchester wouldn't even get into double figures.

Sweetnighter wrote: . So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest. This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives. Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.

Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

 You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?