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mirco View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: True or false?
    Posted: February 15 2005 at 13:42

-The four-letter word used to refer to the sex act is actualy an acrostic: Fornicating Under Consentment of the King.

-The term OK is a short for Zero Killed, and was used during the secession war to indicates that on a given day, there were no casualties.



Edited by mirco
Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 13:50

No, these stories are apochryphal. So is the idea that "that" word means "for unlawful carnal knowledge".

I will check up my "Bill Bryson" for a definitive answer.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 15:35
[Early 16th century. Origin uncertain: perhaps from a Scandinavian source, in which case the underlying sense might be ‘to beat, bang’.]

Microsoft® Encarta® Premium Suite 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 15:38

Actually, the "f" word is a derivation of the 15th century Italian, "faccio," which Shakespeare uses in one of his plays.  As for "OK," I used to know the truth about that one, and will try to find it in my personal files.

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 15:44
[Middle English, attested in pseudo-Latin fuccant, (they) f**k, deciphered from gxddbov.]

Word History: The obscenity f**k is a very old word and has been considered shocking from the first, though it is seen in print much more often now than in the past. Its first known occurrence, in code because of its unacceptability, is in a poem composed in a mixture of Latin and English sometime before 1500. The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, “Flen flyys,” from the first words of its opening line, “Flen, flyys, and freris,” that is, “fleas, flies, and friars.” The line that contains f**k reads “Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk.” The Latin words “Non sunt in coeli, quia,” mean “they [the friars] are not in heaven, since.” The code “gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk” is easily broken by simply substituting the preceding letter in the alphabet, keeping in mind differences in the alphabet and in spelling between then and now: i was then used for both i and j; v was used for both u and v; and vv was used for w. This yields “fvccant [a fake Latin form] vvivys of heli.” The whole thus reads in translation: “They are not in heaven because they f**k wives of Ely [a town near Cambridge].”

 The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 16:05

A Straight Dope Classic from Cecil's storehouse of human knowledge


What's the origin of the "F" word?

31-Aug-1984


Dear Cecil:

The following question isn't something I could send to Action Line, but I've always wanted to know: what is the origin of the "F" word? A friend told me it's an abbreviation of "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge,'' which was supposedly stamped on the foreheads of couples who were locked up in the stocks for fornicating without benefit of matrimony. Also, whither the expression "f**k you"? I've always agreed with George Carlin, who says "unf**k you" would be a more appropriate curse, indicating you hope the person you are cursing would never enjoy the pleasure of sex again, rather than wishing them the opposite. --Lois S., Mesa, Arizona

Cecil replies:

This is going to be a little crude, folks, but let's try to keep a stiff upper lip. I've heard a number of variations of the "f**k-as-acronym" story, none of which, in my opinion (and that of most linguists), is even remotely likely: (1) It stands for "fornication under consent of the king," which was supposedly tacked up over the doors of government-approved brothels in early England. (2) It stands for "for the use of carnal knowledge," which allegedly was stamped on condoms, or, alternatively, used the same way as "for unlawful carnal knowledge."

This passion for preposterous acronyms seems to be peculiar to Anglo-Americans, and some believe it started around World War I, about the same time many acronyms began popping up in government. Others I've come across include P.O.S.H. ("port outward, starboard home"), said to have been stamped on the tickets of first class passengers on India-bound British ships who wanted their cabins on the shady side of the boat during the passage through the tropics; C.O.P. ("constable on patrol"); and T.I.P. ("to insure promptness"). All are rubbish. The best guess is that "f**k" comes from the Middle English f**ken, to strike, move quickly, penetrate, from the German ficken, meaning approximately the same thing. A related word may be the Middle Dutch fokken, to strike, copulate with. We get a clue here as to the level of delicacy and tenderness that has characterized the sex act down through the ages, and which is recalled by the charming epithet "f**k you."

Many other possible etymologies have been offered. Some claim the F-word (sorry to have to resort to this lame expression, but you have no idea how tiresome it can be to type "f**k" a million times) is a truncation of "fecund." Richard Spears, author of the splendid Slang and Euphemism, says the word may be a disguise of the French foutre, same meaning, which comes from the Latin futuere. Another possible origin, Professor Spears says, is the Latin pungo, to prick. Give me a break, doc.

Having totally ODed on gutter epithets, let us move briefly to the cheerful world of euphemism. Professor Spears has amassed an awesome collection of synonyms for the generative act (under "occupy," p. 278, in case you're the type who likes to look up dirty words in reference books), including the following, which gives you an idea of the never-ending richness of the English language: bang, batter, beef, bumble, blow off the loose corns, bounce the brillo, dance the buttock jig, do a dive in the dark, flimp, flurgle, foin, foraminate, futz, get one's leather stretched, get one's nuts cracked, get one's oil changed, go bird's nesting, go bush-ranging, go like a rat up a rhododendron, go star-gazing on one's back, have a bun in the oven, have a game in the cock-loft, have a leap up the ladder, have hot pudding for supper, hide the ferret, hide the salami, hide the sausage, hive it, jazz it, knock it off, lay some pipe, light the lamp, lose the lamp and pocket the stake, make her grunt, mix one's peanut butter, palliardize, pestle, pheeze, pizzle, play cars and garages, plow, plug, plook, ram, rasp, ride below the crupper, shoot between wind and water, strop one's beak, varnish one's cane, wet one's wick, wind the clock, and work the hairy oracle--some 675 synonyms in all. The ingenuity displayed in this, ahh, well-plowed ground is nothing short of awesome.

THE BARD GETS INTO THE ACT

Dear Cecil:

I hate to point this out, but you failed to mention something in your recent discussion of the origin of a certain four-letter word. I did some research and found one of the origins in a book called Shakespeare's Bawdy, which says that the word comes from "foculation," meaning to engage in intercourse. The book I mentioned is a look at sex in Shakespeare. --Melissa Z., Chicago

Cecil replies:

Thanks for writing, but if next time wait till the drugs wear off first. Shakespeare's Bawdy, a comprehensive listing of every dirty word in Shakespeare by language expert Eric Partridge, contains nothing about "foculation." On the contrary, Partridge says the word "f*ck," as he puts it, derives from the German ficken, to strike, which is what I wrote. Perhaps you were thinking of Partridge's discussion of Shakespeare's pun involving "focative" from The Merry Wives of Windsor, act four, scene one, lines 42-46, in which the somewhat stupid Sir Hugh Evans is quizzing the even stupider William on his Latin:

Evans: What is the focative case, William?
William: O, vocativo, O . . .
Hugh: Remember, William, focative is caret.
Mistress Quickly: And that's a good root.

Caret (literally, "it is missing") equals carrot equals root equals penis equals f*ckative case, get it? Don't worry, I didn't either. They were going to hang Shakespeare for this pitiful effort, but he pleaded temporary inanity.

--CECIL ADAMS

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 16:07

It would seem that there is no definitive answer.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 20:10

A (music) teacher once told me that "ok" was short for "on kay", something African slaves would say when they had moved some goods from a ship to the kay.

I'm not sure if that was in correct English...



Edited by Joren
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 23:57

All:

First, Cecil is incorrect in questioning the derivation of the word "Posh."  It does, indeed, stem from the term "port outward, starboard home" - which is where the best, most expensive cabins on ocean liners were.  This is confirmed by Don Voorhees in one of his books on the history of strange questions.

Also included is the history of "OK":

"Some linguists maintain that Andrew Jackson first used the expression, having taken it from the Choctaw Indian word 'okeh.'  It was, however, popularized by Martin Van Buren.  Martin Van Buren was president of the United States from 1837 to 1841.  Born in Kinderhook, New York, he acquired the friendly nickname, "Old Kinderhook."  He ran for re-election in 1940 against General William Henry Harrison, who had the snappy nickname, "Tippecanoe," referring to his famous victory over the Indians at Tippecanoe.  Harrison's running mate was John Tyler, and their campaign slogan was "Tippecanoe and Tyler too!"  During the election campaign, Van Buren was called disparaging nicknames such as "the Little Magician," "King Martin the First," and "the Kinderhook Fox" by his political enemies.  His supporters, in an effort to improve the public image of "Old Kinderhook," formed the Democratic OK Club.  The expression OK, meaning that Van Buren was all right by the Democrats, quickly spread across the nation, and was one of those slang terms that refused to go away."

You could look it up...

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 00:09
but is f**k prog?
"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 06:36
Originally posted by aqualung28 aqualung28 wrote:

but is f**k prog?


I guess that depends on how long it lasts.
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 07:03
Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by aqualung28 aqualung28 wrote:

but is f**k prog?


I guess that depends on how long it lasts.
And how many instruments are used...
Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 07:24
There are so many analogies one could use here, but one must remain strong, one mustn't risk the wrath of the gods, one must remain decent and not shock the younger members (OO-ER!)

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 07:25

Originally posted by mirco mirco wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by aqualung28 aqualung28 wrote:

but is f**k prog?


I guess that depends on how long it lasts.
And how many instruments are used...

And if it is in multi-movement  and leld in the royal suite

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 09:37
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

All:

First, Cecil is incorrect in questioning the derivation of the word "Posh."  It does, indeed, stem from the term "port outward, starboard home" - which is where the best, most expensive cabins on ocean liners were.  This is confirmed by Don Voorhees in one of his books on the history of strange questions.

Sorry, maani, but the "port out, starboard home" explanation does not appear to be correct either. See the following from the Oxford University Press (the publishers of the Oxford English Dictionary) Web site:

What is the origin of the word 'posh'?

The story goes that the more well-to-do passengers travelling to and from India used to have POSH written against their bookings, standing for 'Port Out, Starboard Home' (indicating the more desirable cabins, on the shady side of the ship). Unfortunately, this story did not make its appearance until the 1930s, when the term had been in use for some twenty years, and the word does not appear to have been recorded in the form 'P.O.S.H.', which would be expected if it had originated as an abbreviation. Despite exhaustive enquiries by the late Mr George Chowdharay-Best, researcher for the OED, including interviews with former travellers and inspection of shipping company documents, no supporting evidence has been found.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 09:45

There are several suggestions for the origin of posh. The best known derives it from an acronym associated with the Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Company. It supposedly stood for “Port Out, Starboard Home”. The Company is said to have marked the tickets of higher status passengers with this so that they were put in cabins on the side of the ship that got the benefit of the cooling sea breezes on the outward and return journeys from Britain to India.

The trouble is there’s absolutely no evidence for it and P&O flatly denies any such term existed. It’s just an urban legend, though rather a persistent one. Other suggestions, rather more probable, are that it is an abbreviated form of polished or polish (an example of what’s called grammatical syncopation, where a middle syllable has been left out), or that posh originally meant “halfpenny” (from the Romany posh “half”) and then developed into “money” before acquiring its present meaning. Or it may come from the slang pot (“big”, hence a person of some importance).

World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinion, 1996–2005.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2005 at 11:03
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by mirco mirco wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by aqualung28 aqualung28 wrote:

but is f**k prog?


I guess that depends on how long it lasts.
And how many instruments are used...

And if it is in multi-movement  and leld in the royal suite



This is gonna run and run.
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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