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Publius 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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 Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:19 |
 Arteum wrote:
One Swedish guy was utterly confused when I turned on the powerful bass from "Third" (SOFT MACHINE) for him -- he did not know how to react. He could not believe I was seriously listening to this.
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Yeah I think you're talking about the track I was playing to them in the classroom as in my above post...is it 'Slightly All The Time', the 18 minute long one?
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:22 |
NetsNJFan wrote:
dude cheer up have some fun, IT WAS A JOKE. |
That may be, but it was an offensive joke. It's linguistic racism, which I just don't find funny, however much you exaggerate your point or snicker after you say it.
You have no idea how much English syntax is messing with the basic structure (and less seriously, the vocabulary) of Swedish precisely because people think English somehow better.
And to hear it come from Roine Stolt who needs some remedial schooling in English, just makes it worse.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:23 |
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Quit now Teaflax, you're only pissing people off more.
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:26 |
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Lighten up, Teabagg. Roine's proud of his Swedish heritage, he just likes to be silly.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:27 |
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Haha, the fact that Roine Stolt is himself Swedish makes Teaflax' point even more insignificant.
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:28 |
Publius wrote:
Quit now Teaflax, you're only pissing people off more. |
If anyone's pissed off that I'm defending my mother tongue, that's their damned problem.
What Roine said was offensive, uncalled-for and deeply ironic considering the source.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:28 |
Publius wrote:
Haha, the fact that Roine Stolt is himself Swedish makes Teaflax' point even more insignificant. |
No, you dolt. That's precisely the point.
How's your reading comprehension, eh?
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:30 |
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But surely if he himself is making the point that comparatively English is a more flexible and pliable language than his mother language Swedish, then its one-up for the English language, from the point of view of a Swedish person?
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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DavidInsabella
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 317
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:31 |
I agree, they are very underappreciated. And yes, Joey did do some good vocals. He's out of the band for right now, but Julian tells me he's concidering rejoining (again).
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Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:32 |
Man Overboard wrote:
Roine's proud of his Swedish heritage, he just likes to be silly. |
Yeah, real nice way to show it, by enforcing a crude and anti-intellectual stereotype. Sweden is the one nation I have lived in or have extensive experience of, where it is considered offenisve to care about the language, and where whining about its inadequacy is the norm.
This is not an isolated statement, it's part of a pattern, and a worrying one. That it comes from someone whose English isn't up to snuff is just icing on the cake.
Edited by Teaflax
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:33 |
Publius wrote:
But surely if he himself is making the point that comparatively English is a more flexible and pliable language than his mother language Swedish, then its one-up for the English language, from the point of view of a Swedish person? |
Wow. You're almost there. Now read it all again.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:33 |
Man Overboard wrote:
Lighten up, Teabagg. Roine's proud of his Swedish heritage, he just likes to be silly. |
I think the statement is fairly witty. It's the kind of thing I or my dad would say. We have a host of such phrases I cannot say on here.
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:34 |
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Considering his age, he probably didn't learn English until later in
life, unlike someone your age who likely learned it in school since
childhood. Still. He said it as a total joke, he wasn't
putting down Swedish at all. Do you not have capacity for humor?
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:47 |
Man Overboard wrote:
Considering his age, he probably didn't learn English until later in life, unlike someone your age who likely learned it in school since childhood. |
Absolutely true (although I learned it earlier than school, but that's another story). But he should be aware of his limitations and have some English-speaker vet his lyrics, titles and pronunciations. It's simple pragmatism - and respect for the English language itself.
Man Overboard wrote:
He said it as a total joke, he wasn't putting down Swedish at all. Do you not have capacity for humor? |
´
Well, considering I made my living as a stand up comic for eight years I'd say that I have some capacity for humor.
That said, though to you it sounded like a joke, and he probably meant it as a joke, it is part of a greater whole. My comparison to joking about the inferiority of black people was not frivolous, I really mean that. He's needlessly reinforcing a stereotype about the lesser status of Swedish, which is making the language worse, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'm sorry to be all rabid about it, but I love language, and I love both my tongues of fluency. But English doesn't need defending, it's incredibly strong internationally.
Swedish, however, is under daily assault from sloppy journalists, bad copywriters and other sources that should be producing writings of unassailable grammar and spelling (as the workers in those field generally do for their mother tongues in most other nations that I am aware of) . And much of that comes from the barrage of English we have in our daily lives - that's fine, I don't mind that. But it's seeping into Swedish precisely because caring about Swedish is considered stupid. Why? Because Swedish is "the world's worst language" (actual quote from some Swedish teens).
So, though it may have been a cute one-liner for Roine, he's part of a greater process that leads to some very unpleasant results down the line.
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IDDQD
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 20 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 40
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 19:58 |
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Well, Tool isn't so much bad as they are mind numbingly boring.
They aren't prog or Metal, btw. I suppose they're hardrock with prog
influences. They put me to sleep.
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 20:09 |
Roine made this joke at a special fan show. 300 people in
attendance, every single one of us pretty much in love with the
Swedish, myself included. I don't think anyone took it as
anything but a joke. Why get so upset? I've studied some
Swedish myself, and I love the language. Hell, if you dig far
enough, you'd find an old thread where flowerchild (a Swede) and myself
were trading insults in Swedish. 
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 20:13 |
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Van Der Graaf Generator always gets my wife heading for the pickaxe....usually preceded with " whats that f*"£ing sh"*e"
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 20:15 |
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Noticed the chit chat over speaking English...there are many in England who need to learn how to speak English...ooops
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 20:16 |
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A couple of my friends "wanted" to listen to VdGG the other day, purely
because they knew they wouldn't like it. They deliberately picked
the longest track, from the albums I had and so they chose _A Plague Of
Lighthouse Keepers_ from Pawn Hearts. They heard about a minute
of it, if that and all they could do was laugh...
They probably didn't like Peter Hammill's voice..., not only that, they thought the lyrics were pretentious and stupid.
They do like Ska/Punk, Punk, Elvis and Rock-a-billy mind...
They have no clue whatsoever. They think all prog is 20 minute keyboard solos (or self-indulgence).
Oh well, each to their own I guess.
James.
Edited by Geck0
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 20:20 |
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i find VdGG gets a little to self indulgent for Hammill, especially the later albums.
the eraly ones are great though
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