Jews and Prog

Sweetnighter wrote: goose wrote: Do you have any recordings? I love unexpected crossovers! you know i did have a recording but i'll have to try and find it, not sure where it is at the moment. here's another interesting question that evolves out of this PC discussion: is "hate speech" a type of "free speech?" personally, i think it is. if some governmental organization is putting limitations on what you can say, regardless of what they are, then its a violation of free speech. conversely, should an individual enter into a private institution and say hateful things that aren't respected by the members of that institution, then by all means that member has the decision of either cooperating with the rules of the institution or leaving. from this perspective, i think things make the most sense. people are free to speak their minds in public, yet can't use the claim of free speech in order to run through decent institutions set up volunarily between men. key difference: an individual is under the rule of a government whether or not he/she likes it; an individual chooses to be a part of an organization. so, for example, if somebody joins the boards who starts making racist comments all over, the mods can decide rightly to ban that person from the boards, but that individual is still free to speak his/her mind elsewhere. in that sense, PC is carried away when people aren't able to speak freely, no matter what it is they have to say, but it does check the free speech element from ruining decent institutions.

Its a minefield! The shortfall of free speech is that people will speak 'freely' that means sometimes someone is going to say something that someone will find offensive. Thats life.

Even under rule of government people are still technically free to speak as they choose. In the UK a court can decide if someones comments are designed to incite violence (racial or otherwise) If its decided certain comments are, then someone can be locked up.

I think that free speech obviously comes with responsibility. Ultimately you can not control the way someone talks. If someone is a violent racist they are not going to refrain from using racist speak, because the government has asked them not to. Educate people early on their lives about the futility of intolerance and hope they make the right decisions as an adult. Thats my opinion.

[quote]It's so funny how everyone is so afraid to be considered politically uncorrect. [quote]

I'm not afraid simply because don’t believe in politically correct or incorrect things, mostly because I’m not a USA citizen and don’t believe in 90º% of the usual BS that manipulated Civil Rights institutions try to make all of us believe.

As when writing in English (Which is not my native language), I guide myself for how the things sound or how a word looks after written, and I’m right more times than I’m wrong.

The title of this thread sounds wrong to me, again, I’m absolutely convinced it’s not intentional, but it sounds diminishing towards an entire community.

I’m amazed that people is so sensible when talking about a band like Radiohead to the extreme that some resigned to ProgArchives, but don’t care how  a phrase referring to a determined community sounds.

When we are talking about Radiohead or other bands we have to very careful not to offend the fans, but everybody says it’s not important how we refer to an entire community and people who may feel offended by an inappropriate name of a thread.

Some people may say it’s only words, but in the case of Radiohead were only words and look at the chaos those words caused. I believe our goal is to have people from all nations and communities, so lets be careful for how some phrases sound, because what is not important for us, may be important for other people.

Those are my two cents.

Iván

PS: By the way, Neither me or my family are members of the Jewish Community, but I would do the same for any community.

Honestly I have to agree with Peter, the title of this thread doesn't sound OK, I know for sure  it's not the intention, but sounds a bit racist.

About Prog' in Israel, I have a good friend who is member of this forum, her user is Jester, and she sent me for a special presentation in a Prog session some excelent Prog' from her country, including a very good DVD from a band named EGGROLL that plays their own stuff and some covers from Genesis, Jethro and an spectacular version of Starless.

She also sent me a couple of VCD's of a band already listened called Sympozium that plays great prog', but sadly the VCD's were not well burned and a video from Eggroll that is in PAL and can't still change it to NSTC.

I also listened and reviewed an excellent band called Trespass.

I believe Israel has a great future in Prog' if they continue supporting the excellent bands they have.

Iván

I agree, Em, and please don't get me wrong: I am not against the mere mention of Jews -- but did first viewing the title of the thread honestly give you no misgivings, whatsoever?

Peter, I concede I had a slight flinch. As I said, "simply mentioning the word "Jew" seems to evoke discomfort." I didn't neccessarily disclude myself from this observation. My point was rather, the fear of being labelled an antiSemite causes many to avoid such questions. I myself find it hard to criticise the corrupt theocratic State of Israel without feeling compelled to first clarify that I have no quarrel with Jews or Judaism. This common feeling of having to walk on egg shells has been exploited by Israel to shamelessly rob the Pallastinians of their homeland, whilst borrowed guilt and a desire to win influence in the middle-east has caused certain powerfull countries on either side of the pond (no names, no packdrill) to enable and legitimize that that is illegitimate. I don't want to start an "Israel,  promised land or stolen real estate" thread, only to say that to do anything to increase the victim status of the State of Israel is to further the cause of an oppressor which is itself guilty of crimes against humanity.

Now that's contentious!

James Lee wrote: It's really no different than asking about women in prog...the novelty factor. It doesn't really matter, it's just the curiosity of some members of the majority for incidences of the extreme minority. As long as we handle ourselves appropriately, we'll be okay. Here's one band: http://mitkadem3.homestead.com/parva_english.html and if you read Hebrew, there's a whole webpage devoted to the subject of Jewish Progressive Rock: http://mitkadem.homestead.com/

Yes and no, James -- yes and no.

Jewish history remains Jewish history, and anti-Semitism (not yet seen here, I know) is alive and well.

Right you are! Forge ahead, but tread carefully.....