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oliverstoned 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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 Posted: July 02 2005 at 02:44 |
 fractalman wrote:
Simple Minds has been labeled many things over the years, but I do think that they have some elements of progressive music; especially on Reel to Real Cacophony, Empires and Dance, Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call, and New Gold Dream. Listen to the Nijmegen show from 1983. It's awesome!
Mick MacNeil, Charlie Burchill, and Derek Forbes complement each other quite well.
Any thoughts? |
Great sense of humor. Really.
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valravennz
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Joined: March 20 2005
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 02:51 |
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Back on the topic - Simple Minds is/was one of my favourite groups of the 80's. Though not prog in the sense of groups like Yes, ELP etc, I think there was some very prog moments in their early albums - Reel to Reel Cacophony, Empires and Dance, Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call and New Gold Dream. IMO I think very experimental/art rock and quite unlike any other music output at the time. They became more mainstream after New Gold Dream although that is still one of my top albums ever. I also think Sparkle in the Rain is one of their more commercial highlights. Overall, (and I am stepping out on a limb here), I think they could qualify for the archives especially since groups like Talk Talk have made the grade with probably less "prog" output than Simple Minds.
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
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Points: 1125
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 03:42 |
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Simple Minds made some great pop/rock music in an era which was pretty directionless.But as far as I can see they cannot ever be labelled progressive.
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Retrovertigo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 537
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 03:59 |
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Points: 782
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 04:00 |
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Great group, but you won't convince most people here to allow them a 'prog
rock' label. Had they been around in the '70's, they'd call it prog.
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MorgothSunshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 298
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 07:09 |
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Oh my god......NO!
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For every truth even the contrary is true...
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Jools
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 159
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 07:15 |
They were accused of being bombastic in the eighties which is certainly a prog trait but bands can be as bombastic as they like for me, thats one of the main things I like about the genre. They also knew how to build tension and use dynamics (Belfast Child being a good example) which again is a prog trait. I don't think they were quite prog but I can see how they would appeal to some prog lovers. Around 1989 I think they sounded a bit like Marillion of the same era. One of the better eighties pop bands along with Tears for Fears.
Oh yeah and the Bassline on Waterfront sounds a little bit like the one on One of These Days.
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Ridicule is the burden of genius.
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felona
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 12 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 521
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 07:40 |
MorgothSunshine wrote:
Oh my god......NO! |
so according to your signature ... there must be some truth here!
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I was never really sure what I was waiting for. When the moment came I was looking away ......
The Church "After Everything Now This"
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Arsillus
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Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:38 |
Simple Minds prog?
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Dragon Phoenix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1475
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 12:11 |
Great band, not prog. Not even art rock, but New wave. IMHO of course. And yes, I know several of their albums quite well.
Other bands from that period that I think would be more deserving of consideration: Talking Heads and the aforementioned Japan (with David Sylvian and Rain Tree Crow already in the archives). Talk Talk is in the archives, be it on the strength of their later albums.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: July 04 2005 at 02:52 |
Pretty soon , we will be discussing wheter the Culture Club and Hum an League were prog or not!!!!
Enough of this non-sense. New Wave Groups have no place here!!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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felixxx
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2005
Location: Greece
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Points: 260
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 06:48 |
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valravennz
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 09:06 |
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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fractalman
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 64
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 13:31 |
Ehem. . . uh . . . they *were* around in the 70's! Life In A Day and Reel to Real Cacophony were both released on the 70's!
russellk wrote:
Great group, but you won't convince most people here to allow them a 'prog
rock' label. Had they been around in the '70's, they'd call it prog. |
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fractalman
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Joined: July 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 64
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 13:40 |
If you really want to get down to it, Asia isn't/wasn't any more prog than Simple Minds despite the "All Star" prog musician line-up of the early 80's. In fact, I'd say that SM was, in many ways, more progressive than Asia from 79-82. As other people have stressed, listen to these albums before criticizing:
1) Reel to Real Cacophony (very experimental and has many prog elements)
2) Empires and Dance (more minimalist, but still has prog elements)
3) Sons and Fascination / Sister Feelings Call (less minimalist with prog elements)
4) New Gold Dream (a streamlined, less cacophonous sound, but still has progressive elements)
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fractalman
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Location: United States
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Points: 64
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 16:43 |
In the heat of debate, I think that this question was missed.
fractalman wrote:
oh! Has anyone noticed any similarities between Simple Minds' Changeling and Asia's Cutting It Fine? |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 20 2005
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Points: 2546
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 22:15 |
fractalman wrote:
Ehem. . . uh . . . they *were* around in the 70's! Life In A Day and Reel to Real Cacophony were both released on the 70's!
russellk wrote:
Great group, but you won't convince most people here to allow them a 'prog
rock' label. Had they been around in the '70's, they'd call it prog. |
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A big  Fractalman. Adds further weight to my thoughts that many progheads cannot get past the NW thing to the point of not knowing anything about SM earlier releases (including dates of release!) and should take a closer look at them.
Re: comparison with Asia - I will have to dig those tracks up before making any comment.
Cheers
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 03:19 |
First , I never said that Simple Minds were bad or other low quality or even without merits. Just no my tastes. I must reckon that for those years, they were not that bad but plain pop.
There has been calls for inclusion for XTC, OMD and other N W groups and this is unsettling . I really think that the site's credibility would suffer if they were to be included (and certainly more so if obvious groups like Nucleus are yet to be included, and S M were to be). Most progheads must cringe at seeing Talk Talk and The Church being in already!!!!
As for not listening to Simple Minds , I must tell you I suffered hell throughout the 80's listening to that stuff because of friends imposing their tastes to everyone.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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fractalman
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 64
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 08:45 |
Actually, if you really want to get technical. The band probably should have been called Johnny and the Self Abusers when they released the Life In A Day album. It's definitely punk. The first true Simple Minds album is Reel to Real Cacophony. Both released in 1979, but the latter is vastly different from the former. They literally sound like two different bands.
valravennz wrote:
fractalman wrote:
Ehem. . . uh . . . they *were* around in the 70's! Life In A Day and Reel to Real Cacophony were both released on the 70's!
russellk wrote:
Great group, but you won't convince most people here to allow them a 'prog
rock' label. Had they been around in the '70's, they'd call it prog. |
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A big Fractalman. Adds further weight to my thoughts that many progheads cannot get past the NW thing to the point of not knowing anything about SM earlier releases (including dates of release!) and should take a closer look at them.
Re: comparison with Asia - I will have to dig those tracks up before making any comment.
Cheers |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: July 06 2005 at 09:38 |
Sean Trane wrote:
First , I never said that Simple Minds were bad or other low quality or even without merits. Just no my tastes. I must reckon that for those years, they were not that bad but plain pop.
There has been calls for inclusion for XTC, OMD and other N W groups and this is unsettling . I really think that the site's credibility would suffer if they were to be included (and certainly more so if obvious groups like Nucleus are yet to be included, and S M were to be).
IMO Nucleus is far more likely to be added to the archives than SM. But I cannot see that the site would be degraded if SM was included. It all depends on what is considered prog music or not and the merit of the work of each nominee for the archives.
Most progheads must cringe at seeing Talk Talk and The Church being in already!!!!
Now that last part I would like seen substantiated. I am sure there are many progheads who listen to and admire both Talk Talk and The Church. With Talk Talk their inclusion into the archives would be through their very prog last 3 albums.
As for not listening to Simple Minds , I must tell you I suffered hell throughout the 80's listening to that stuff because of friends imposing their tastes to everyone.
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Well I am sorry that you were brow beaten with SM and New Wave, by your friends. But now that you are that much more mature in your music tastes, perhaps you can force yourself to look at SM's early work starting from "Reel to Reel Cacophany", subjectively, before entirely dissing them.
However, each to own music tastes and opinions ok? 
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Simple Minds . . . progressive?
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