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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 03:31 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I don't like FE because it tries to sound like Neal Morse was still with them. Octane is more authentic. |
In my opinion the problem with Neal Morse was that he never gave room to his mates' composing skills, due to his overwhelming and prolific writing talent.
After listening to the last two albums, I must say that it's a pity that Dave Meros was not given a chance before! In my opinion he's a very talented songwriter!
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A flower?
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 191
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 04:42 |
If you're into 70's symphonic prog you might like Beware Of Darkness best. It really sounds like it is recorded somewhere in the 70's. They sound more like a mix of Yes, Genesis, Tull and The Beatles here than they sound like the Spock's Beard on other albums. If that's a good thing or not is for you to decide. The Light and V are the next most symphonic-oriented.
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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:23 |
Sir Hogweed wrote:
If you're into 70's symphonic prog you might like Beware Of Darkness best. It really sounds like it is recorded somewhere in the 70's. They sound more like a mix of Yes, Genesis, Tull and The Beatles here than they sound like the Spock's Beard on other albums. If that's a good thing or not is for you to decide. The Light and V are the next most symphonic-oriented. |
Don't forget the Gentle Giant influence on Thoughts
The beatlesque component can be surely found in the title track, a cover of George Harrison's 1970 song!
(check out Neal Morse's rendition of What is life? among the bonus tracks of One...it seems he's very fond of the late fab-four album All things must pass - a SHOULD have, in my opinion)
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A flower?
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MorgothSunshine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 298
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:28 |
Beware Of Darkness! No doubt!
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For every truth even the contrary is true...
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:35 |
Ty1020 wrote:
I recently got into Transatlantic, which was my first exposure to Neal Morse, and I really loved it. I'm thinking Spock's Beard (another band I haven't listened to) would sound similar, so if I'm going to get one of their albums, which one should it be? Should I check out Neal's solo efforts, too?
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Caveat emptor. I think Transtalantic are pretty good (with the exception of We All Need Light), but find Spock's Beard middling at best (and offensive at worst). I can listen to V and Snow, but it does require some skipping and some overlooking of overt AOR tendencies.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21505
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:36 |
Teaflax wrote:
Ty1020 wrote:
I recently got into Transatlantic, which was my first exposure to Neal Morse, and I really loved it. I'm thinking Spock's Beard (another band I haven't listened to) would sound similar, so if I'm going to get one of their albums, which one should it be? Should I check out Neal's solo efforts, too?
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Caveat emptor. I think Transtalantic are pretty good (with the exception of We All Need Light), but find Spock's Beard middling at best (and offensive at worst). I can listen to V and Snow, but it does require some skipping and some overlooking of overt AOR tendencies.
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I love those tendencies.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:40 |
Ty1020 wrote:
So The Light is similar to 70's prog? Any bands in particular that it sounds like?
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Kansas/Boston/Toto/Survivor vocal sections with sudden incongruous bursts of Yes, GG and Genesis. The two sides seem to bear almost no relation to each other at all.
I've described SB as a bunch of kids growing up on mainstream US Rock radio trying to make Prog music based entirely on a description in a book or a retelling from a friend, without ever hearing the bands involved.
If you have no problem with incredibly mainstream vocals, harmonies and chord progressions, you will probably love SB.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20238
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:41 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Teaflax wrote:
Ty1020 wrote:
I recently got into Transatlantic, which was my first exposure to Neal Morse, and I really loved it. I'm thinking Spock's Beard (another band I haven't listened to) would sound similar, so if I'm going to get one of their albums, which one should it be? Should I check out Neal's solo efforts, too?
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Caveat emptor. I think Transtalantic are pretty good (with the exception of We All Need Light), but find Spock's Beard middling at best (and offensive at worst). I can listen to V and Snow, but it does require some skipping and some overlooking of overt AOR tendencies.
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I love those tendencies.
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So do I, have long been a 'Journey' fan, no-one will make me feel guilty for liking them!![](smileys/smiley36.gif) ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:42 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Teaflax wrote:
and some overlooking of overt AOR tendencies.
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I love those tendencies.
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Fine, but can we please stop calling them a great Prog band? They're AOR Prog, which by all rights should be a subgenre of its own.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21505
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:47 |
Teaflax wrote:
If you have no problem with incredibly mainstream vocals, harmonies and chord progressions, you will probably love SB.
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It is often a problem of "progheads" that they're so accustomed to inaccessible music like VdGG or GG, that they belittle bands like Spock's Beard and say that they're too mainstream. While that may be true for certain songs (namely ballads), the majority of Spock's Beard works would be immediately described as non-mainstream by people accustomed to REAL mainstream radio music.
Listen to The Light, Go The Way You Go, The Water, In The Mouth Of Madness, Thoughts, ... it is NOT mainstream by any standard.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21505
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:48 |
Teaflax wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Teaflax wrote:
and some overlooking of overt AOR tendencies.
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I love those tendencies.
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Fine, but can we please stop calling them a great Prog band? They're AOR Prog, which by all rights should be a subgenre of its own.
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Please stop this categorizing madness.![](smileys/smiley36.gif)
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 191
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 05:53 |
BiGi wrote:
Sir Hogweed wrote:
They sound more like a mix of Yes, Genesis, Tull and The Beatles here than they sound like the Spock's Beard on other albums.
| Don't forget the Gentle Giant influence on Thoughts The beatlesque component can be surely found in the title track, a cover of George Harrison's 1970 song! (check out Neal Morse's rendition of What is life? among the bonus tracks of One...it seems he's very fond of the late fab-four album All things must pass - a SHOULD have, in my opinion) |
Thanks for the addition, BiGi. How could I forget GG? It was the section "Thoughts are like black ravens in the sky" that brung The Beatles into mind. And luckily I have the One bonus CD (also liked his Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey impersonations)
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 06:01 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
it is NOT mainstream by any standard. |
Listen, I can prove it on a slide rule. It's an empirical fact, not an opinion. Where the opinion comes in, is whether you like it or not.
It's an incontrovertible fact that the Blues/Rock style cadences, standard chord sequences, smooth harmonies, the shortness and repetition of melodic lines and overall lack of key changes or unexpected rhythmic phrasing in the vocal sections makes them provably similar to, say, Journey (and show me a die-hard SB fan who hates AOR).
As for "categorizing madness", it's extremely useful to have a common vocabulary when discussing music, because it cuts down on confusion. Maybe if someone had told me "unless you think Styx and Night Ranger are pretty good, you won't like Spock's Beard", I could have avoided one of the biggest musical disappointments I've had in the last ten years.
AOR Prog is extremely useful as a term for the kind of music which fuses instrumental prowess and inventiveness with the songwriting chops of Winger or Triumph. It's not a lie to say that it's in quite a different league than Symphonic Prog, Art Rock, Neoprog, RIO or all of the other subgenres that are already in place under the Big Prog umbrella.
Edited by Teaflax
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 21505
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 06:14 |
Teaflax wrote:
AOR Prog is extremely useful as a term for the kind of music which fuses instrumental prowess and inventiveness with the songwriting chops of Winger or Triumph. It's not a lie to say that it's in quite a different league than Symphonic Prog, Art Rock, Neoprog, RIO or all of the other subgenres that are already in place under the Big Prog umbrella.
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AOR Prog is an adequate description for 50% of the Spock's Beard material. I'd say that another 10% are standard AOR, and the remaining 40% are Prog with slight AOR influences. All that is not taking into account the non-Morse albums.
BTW: I hate Styx. I love Spock's Beard. Go figure ... But I thank you for at least admitting that they have instrumental prowess and inventiveness.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 06:26 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
AOR Prog is an adequate description for 50% of the Spock's Beard material. I'd say that another 10% are standard AOR, and the remaining 40% are Prog with slight AOR influences. All that is not taking into account the non-Morse albums.
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Fair enough - I haven't heard the non-Morse stuff either. I'd say the stuff I can handle is that last 40% (for instance The Great Nothing on V - it comes itchingly close to making me want to turn it off about two or three times during its length, but never quite).
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
But I thank you for at least admitting that they have instrumental prowess and inventiveness. |
Well, I'd be lying if I didn't say that. ![](smileys/smiley2.gif)
No, but honestly, that's what makes it so galling. You'll hear this great instrumental intro and then the vocals come in, and it's like some ingratiating Toto tune, and the suddenly: Prog fireworks for two minutes and then back to sub-Totoville again. It's such an odd combination to me.
Edited by Teaflax
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Progzilla
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 206
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 09:37 |
Yurkspb wrote:
The first Spock's Beard CD I bought was V. Cannot
say it's a masterpiece or a bad album, somethng in between. As I see
from this discussion, V is recommended quite often as the best album.
So if this is the best, I guess I won't buy any SB albums anymore ![](smileys/smiley18.gif) |
Just because people in general think one particular album is the best
never means YOU will think the same way. On the other hand, if you
don't like a band's most popular album at all, you probably won't like
the rest. Why don't you give The Kindness of Strangers or Beware of
Darkness a
try, I personally think V is good, but I really started digging SB
through the older albums.
For me it is extremly difficult to compare SB's albums. They all hold
the same solid high standard, and never fail to get you in a good mood.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16835
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 13:34 |
BiGi wrote:
[QUOTE=MikeEnRegalia]I don't like
FE because it tries to sound like Neal Morse was
still with them. Octane is more authentic.[/
QUOTE]
In my opinion the problem with Neal Morse was that
he never gave room to his mates' composing skills,
due to his overwhelming and prolific writing talent.
After listening to the last two albums, I must say that
it's a pity that Dave Meros was not given a chance
before! In my opinion he's a very talented
songwriter! |
I totally agree. Some of the stuff he wrote on Octane
and FE was brilliant.
About Octane: It is probably one of the most
underrated albums. People have been turned off
because the fac that Neal Morse has left them, but
remember there are still 4 really talented members
left in the band....
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The Prognaut
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 14 2004
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 1492
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 13:56 |
I go for "Snow" on this one...
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break the circle
reset my head
wake the sleepwalker
and i'll wake the dead
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Meng
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 29 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 14
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 15:00 |
I think Beware of Darkness is absolutely superb. I've got a couple of their
others but that's the one I usually listen to.
A lot of people rate Snow but I couldn't get into it.
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"Who are all these people in my office anyway?"
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limeyrob
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: January 15 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1402
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Posted: July 05 2005 at 16:50 |
Start at the beginning like I did. SB was one of the first bands I got into from this site and they do have their own distinctive style. V is definately their best but I am one of those who like to leave the best till last. I am not really a cherry picker. Especially with something as consistently good as SB. However having said that if this site's concensus is that a debut is a howler I may start with a later album. It's a question of judgement and preference - and a few hundred other factors. Snow is also good but lost me on the last couple of tracks
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