Dream Theatre - any recommendations

Miaugion wrote: I agree with anyone who says "Scenes" is problematic. For me it's derivative, incoherent garbage. One of the biggest reasons for its success was that a lot of people were disappointed in the commercial and unimaginative direction DT took with "Falling into Infinity" and that DT announced that the next album was going to be a "back to the roots" ("back to images") album, the most 'progressive' thing they ever did.

Another thing: Although Scenes contains references to Metropolis Pt.1, there are NO similarities to Images & Words. Scenes is not an album that returns to the roots of DT. It's like no previous DT album, largely due to the influence of Rudess, who added many neo-classical elements to their style.

Miaugion wrote: just abhor 90 % of this overhyped, badly produced, patchy, incoherent collection of rehashed fragments with its schoolboy lyrics

Sounds a little over the top if you ask me. I didn't mean to say that your whole post was silly. The album is not overhyped ... at least it's propertly counter-bashed. It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. rehashed? don't know what that is supposed to mean. I suppose you mean that they're quoting ideas from other artists. Well, it's entirely subjective whether you think this is good or bad. Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: The album is not overhyped ... at least it's propertly counter-bashed. Is it? Sooo many people say anything else DT has done "pales in comparison to 'Scenes'" or "'Scenes!' No contest." IMO that's really tragic because on other albums, especially on the earlier ones, DT at least tried to establish their own musical identity. I don't know if they succeeded but at least they tried to create and establish it. And then there is this derivative mess which in parts sounds more like Roger Waters than Waters himself does, and everybody goes: "Awwwwww! Awesome." DT began to get rid of large parts of their identity, and everybody loved it. So sad.

I don't see any Roger Waters references in Scenes. Also, the sound they established there was continued on 6DoIT disc 2, it has become THE DT sound of the Rudess era.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. Oh well, the production is flat and overly compressed and the mix is muddy. The production on "Awake" was much more transparent and powerful. Even "Lines in the Sand" is a nice sonic experience although Shirley made the drums on "FII" sound like cookie boxes.

Productionwise, I'd prefer Scenes over Awake.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. *cough* There are sooo many different styles and sooo many rather short parts on that album so that it comes across as an overambitious mess without depth, atmosphere and a plausible dramatic curve. Maybe the album would have become better if they had decided to use the ideas for a double album.

You don't like the album ... you're not even trying to enjoy it. If they had made it a double album, I guess you would be the first to complain about too much filler. It is a complex album, and this complexity is what I enjoy most about it. It's not for everyone, though.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective. Well, Dieter Bohlen's lyrics are 'cleverly constructed' as well, and "Titanic" is a 'cleverly constructed' and well-made movie. But I hope there'll always be people who don't refrain from slating such banalities. As far as lyrics are concerned I simply seem to have higher standards I suppose. Hmmm, maybe we should talk about the merits of "Awake" instead since we all probably prefer agreements to disagreements.

I prefer Awake over Scenes, too. But I doubt that I prefer it for the same reasons that you do.

Regarding the Scenes lyrics: I like them fine. Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: I don't see any Roger Waters references in Scenes. ... MikeEnRegalia wrote: It is a complex album, and this complexity is what I enjoy most about it. It's not for everyone, though. An understandable comment. But I wouldn't say it's 'complex'. "Images and Words" is 'complex'. "Scenes" is just 'complicated'. I like complex, technical music. Even if it lacks emotion it can be great. But tracks like "The Dance of Eternity" have no soul anymore. IMO complexity is much more effective if there is a well-defined basis from which the different phrases and parts can deviate. Tracks like "TDoE" lack such a basis and do not come full circle. That's not what I'd call 'a clever structure'.

Come on ... would Roger Waters sing about a murder mystery reincarnation story? There's no Hitchhiker or Amused in Scenes ... give me just one example (I'm really interested).

Regarding complexity: Images and Words is the least complex DT album. The only REALLY complex song is Metropolis Pt. 1 ... and THAT is just in the fashion of Scenes.

BTW: I'm a guitarist and I can play large parts of Images And Words. A beautiful album. Learning To Live is particularly awesome.

Miaugion wrote: Apart from that they avoided quotations from 70s prog and classical music: for me that's another reason why later DT became really boring since I think they should stick to their Metal roots. They're Metal heads, always were, always will be. Metal's what they can do best. When they dare to tackle the music of the prog giants, which always requires a certain amount of emotional depth, everything sounds artificial.

Metalheads? How is Jordan Rudess a metalhead? How are JP, MP and JM metalheads? They obviously are not, looking at the music they make/made. If I'm not mistaken, Dream Theater is actually influenced more by Progressive music than Metal.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Whatever ... please give me an example. Regression, The Spirit carries on

Sorry, but if you're referring to the parts where Petrucci is strumming an acoustic guitar, with some synth voices in the background ... that could be ANYTHING.