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Miaugion 
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Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
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Points: 295
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 Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:32 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I don't see any Roger Waters references in Scenes. |
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MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Also, the sound they established there was continued on 6DoIT disc 2, it has become THE DT sound of the Rudess era. |
Right: Liquid Tension Experiment with fast (often tuneless) instrumentals, quotations from other bands and schmaltzy ballads. 
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Productionwise, I'd prefer Scenes over Awake. |
No problem. I don't have to listen to that stale production.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
You don't like the album ... you're not even trying to enjoy it. |
I have tried. Bought the thing on the day of its release and tried and tried and tried.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
If they had made it a double album, I guess you would be the first to complain about too much filler. |
Please stop guessing.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
It is a complex album, and this complexity is what I enjoy most about it. It's not for everyone, though. |
An understandable comment. But I wouldn't say it's 'complex'. "Images and Words" is 'complex'. "Scenes" is just 'complicated'. I like complex, technical music. Even if it lacks emotion it can be great. But tracks like "The Dance of Eternity" have no soul anymore. IMO complexity is much more effective if there is a well-defined basis from which the different phrases and parts can deviate. Tracks like "TDoE" lack such a basis and do not come full circle. That's not what I'd call 'a clever structure'.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Regarding the Scenes lyrics: I like them fine. Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified. |
Correct. 'Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified.' 
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I prefer Awake over Scenes, too. But I doubt that I prefer it for the same reasons that you do. |
Oh, come on. Do the reasons matter?
Edited by Miaugion
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:44 |
I don't see any Roger Waters references in Scenes. Also, the sound they established there was continued on 6DoIT disc 2, it has become THE DT sound of the Rudess era.
Miaugion wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. |
Oh well, the production is flat and overly compressed and the mix is muddy. The production on "Awake" was much more transparent and powerful. Even "Lines in the Sand" is a nice sonic experience although Shirley made the drums on "FII" sound like cookie boxes.
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Productionwise, I'd prefer Scenes over Awake.
Miaugion wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. |
*cough* There are sooo many different styles and sooo many rather short parts on that album so that it comes across as an overambitious mess without depth, atmosphere and a plausible dramatic curve. Maybe the album would have become better if they had decided to use the ideas for a double album. 
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You don't like the album ... you're not even trying to enjoy it. If they had made it a double album, I guess you would be the first to complain about too much filler. It is a complex album, and this complexity is what I enjoy most about it. It's not for everyone, though.
Miaugion wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective.
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Well, Dieter Bohlen's lyrics are 'cleverly constructed' as well, and "Titanic" is a 'cleverly constructed' and well-made movie. But I hope there'll always be people who don't refrain from slating such banalities. As far as lyrics are concerned I simply seem to have higher standards I suppose.
Hmmm, maybe we should talk about the merits of "Awake" instead since we all probably prefer agreements to disagreements.  |
I prefer Awake over Scenes, too. But I doubt that I prefer it for the same reasons that you do.
Regarding the Scenes lyrics: I like them fine. Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Miaugion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
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Points: 295
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 11:38 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
The album is not overhyped ... at least it's propertly counter-bashed. |
Is it? Sooo many people say anything else DT has done "pales in comparison to 'Scenes'" or "'Scenes!' No contest." IMO that's really tragic because on other albums, especially on the earlier ones, DT at least tried to establish their own musical identity. I don't know if they succeeded but at least they tried to create and establish it. And then there is this derivative mess which in parts sounds more like Roger Waters than Waters himself does, and everybody goes: "Awwwwww! Awesome." DT began to get rid of large parts of their identity, and everybody loved it. So sad.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. |
Oh well, the production is flat and overly compressed and the mix is muddy. The production on "Awake" was much more transparent and powerful. Even "Lines in the Sand" is a nice sonic experience although Shirley made the drums on "FII" sound like cookie boxes.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. |
*cough* There are sooo many different styles and sooo many rather short parts on that album so that it comes across as an overambitious mess without depth, atmosphere and a plausible dramatic curve. Maybe the album would have become better if they had decided to use the ideas for a double album.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective. |
Well, Dieter Bohlen's lyrics are 'cleverly constructed' as well, and "Titanic" is a 'cleverly constructed' and well-made movie. But I hope there'll always be people who don't refrain from slating such banalities. As far as lyrics are concerned I simply seem to have higher standards I suppose.
Hmmm, maybe we should talk about the merits of "Awake" instead since we all probably prefer agreements to disagreements.
Edited by Miaugion
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 10:05 |
Miaugion wrote:
just abhor 90 % of this overhyped, badly produced, patchy, incoherent collection of rehashed fragments with its schoolboy lyrics
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Sounds a little over the top if you ask me. I didn't mean to say that your whole post was silly. The album is not overhyped ... at least it's propertly counter-bashed. It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. rehashed? don't know what that is supposed to mean. I suppose you mean that they're quoting ideas from other artists. Well, it's entirely subjective whether you think this is good or bad. Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective.
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Miaugion
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Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
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Points: 295
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 09:52 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I didn't mean to offend you, but you made some pretty silly statements that make me laugh. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you made a poll about your post, asking whether your statements are true, arguable or just plainly silly. |
Oh well, on a planet where Dieter Bohlen and the Backstreet Boys are massively successful and people like G.W.B. are allowed to live in the White House polls do not mean that much to me. 
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
You can't say that Scenes is crap. Neither can you say that Marillion is crap. Well, you can say what you want, actually, but in this case you're only hurting your credibility ... |
Sorry, it seems like you've misread the post. Actually, Marillion is my favourite band of all time.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Another thing: Although Scenes contains references to Metropolis Pt.1, there are NO similarities to Images & Words. Scenes is not an album that returns to the roots of DT. It's like no previous DT album, largely due to the influence of Rudess, who added many neo-classical elements to their style. |
Again I think you've misread the post. The band said that it was the 'return to Images' to make the old fanbase happy and reconcile them with their music. I didn't say that. Apart from some quotations here and there there's no similarity at all. It rather sounds like a cover medley (Kansas, Roger Waters, King's X/The Beatles, Zappa, Rush, U2 plus some elements from late 70s artrock near the end) done in the LTE style, not like classic DT would have done it. Apart from that this was the album that convinced me that LaBrie is very inconsistent. I think he did a pretty good job on "Awake", a very versatile vocal performance by his standards. On "Scenes" he just came across like a schmaltzy crooner (or Schlagersänger as we'd say in stupid Germany  ).
My main point is that "Scenes" sounds rather bolted together, fragmentary, incoherent and that it seems that DT wear their influences on their sleeves. Yes, musical coherence and compositional originality are two aspects I regard as being very commendable. "Scenes" is below par as regards these aspects. Silly? Or simply a different musical standard with different criteria than yours?
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:10 |
Miaugion wrote:
I agree with anyone who says "Scenes" is problematic. For me it's derivative, incoherent garbage. One of the biggest reasons for its success was that a lot of people were disappointed in the commercial and unimaginative direction DT took with "Falling into Infinity" and that DT announced that the next album was going to be a "back to the roots" ("back to images") album, the most 'progressive' thing they ever did.
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Another thing: Although Scenes contains references to Metropolis Pt.1, there are NO similarities to Images & Words. Scenes is not an album that returns to the roots of DT. It's like no previous DT album, largely due to the influence of Rudess, who added many neo-classical elements to their style.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:06 |
I didn't mean to offend you, but you made some pretty silly statements that make me laugh. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you made a poll about your post, asking whether your statements are true, arguable or just plainly silly.
You can't say that Scenes is crap. Neither can you say that Marillion is crap. Well, you can say what you want, actually, but in this case you're only hurting your credibility ... and you promote both DT and Marillion.
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Miaugion
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Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:45 |
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:40 |
Miaugion wrote:
I agree with anyone who says "Scenes" is problematic. For me it's derivative, incoherent garbage. One of the biggest reasons for its success was that a lot of people were disappointed in the commercial and unimaginative direction DT took with "Falling into Infinity" and that DT announced that the next album was going to be a "back to the roots" ("back to images") album, the most 'progressive' thing they ever did. Before the album was released everybody knew that it's going to be a classic, and everybody knew that they'll love it. (How to create a piece of art in the public consciousness, Lesson One: ... )
Oh well, I just abhor 90 % of this overhyped, badly produced, patchy, incoherent collection of rehashed fragments with its schoolboy lyrics. The only song worth listening to is "Strange Deja Vu" although it could never have been written outside a prog history full of Kansas. Apart from some Marillion albums it's the biggest prog disappointment ever. For me. People will love it of course (and nobody knows why). 
(And no, I'm not a DT hater. I really, really like the stuff they did with Kevin Moore, some of the Sherinian stuff and the fat rehash of "Master of Puppets" on "Train of Thought".)
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You don't know anything about music.
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Miaugion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
Status: Offline
Points: 295
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:37 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88
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 Perfect and throw in A Change of Seasons
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Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"
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naaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! Its perfect!!!
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It's got some of DT's best work, but also some of its worst. Very, very inconsistent.
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Are you saying that "Scenes" is inconsistant? You're kidding right? |
I agree with anyone who says "Scenes" is problematic. For me it's derivative, incoherent garbage. One of the biggest reasons for its success was that a lot of people were disappointed in the commercial and unimaginative direction DT took with "Falling into Infinity" and that DT announced that the next album was going to be a "back to the roots" ("back to images") album, the most 'progressive' thing they ever did. Before the album was released everybody knew that it's going to be a classic, and everybody knew that they'll love it. (How to create a piece of art in the public consciousness, Lesson One: ... )
Oh well, I just abhor 90 % of this overhyped, badly produced, patchy, incoherent collection of rehashed fragments with its schoolboy lyrics. The only song worth listening to is "Strange Deja Vu" although it could never have been written outside a prog history full of Kansas. Apart from some Marillion albums it's the biggest prog disappointment ever. For me. People will love it of course (and nobody knows why).
(And no, I'm not a DT hater. I really, really like the stuff they did with Kevin Moore, some of the Sherinian stuff and the fat rehash of "Master of Puppets" on "Train of Thought".)
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 04:53 |
Arsillus wrote:
Shadow Gallery: I don't have any......maybe I should get some.
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 Good Idea ... if at all possible, you should try to get the Room V limited edition, because there's an excellent 25 minute Pink Floyd medley on the bonus disc. Of course, if you don't like PF, you can choose any other disc ... but Room V is their best work so far.
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Arsillus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 7374
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 22:44 |
Dream Theater: Just buy 'em all.
Shadow Gallery: I don't have any......maybe I should get some.
Edited by Arsillus
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bogdan.
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Slovenia
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Posted: July 02 2005 at 05:22 |
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When Dream And Day Unite
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GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
Carpe Diem!
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:13 |
Manunkind wrote:
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88
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Perfect and throw in A Change of Seasons
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Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"
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naaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! Its perfect!!!
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It's got some of DT's best work, but also some of its worst. Very, very inconsistent.
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Are you saying that "Scenes" is inconsistant? You're kidding right?
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:11 |
Dream Theatre - any recommendations
Yes, listen to something else!
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Manunkind
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 2373
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:08 |
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88
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Perfect and throw in A Change of Seasons
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Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"
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naaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! Its perfect!!!
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It's got some of DT's best work, but also some of its worst. Very, very inconsistent.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Ed_The_Dead
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Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4928
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 11:02 |
Manunkind wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88
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Perfect and throw in A Change of Seasons
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Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"
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naaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! Its perfect!!!
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proger
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Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 944
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 10:58 |
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Dream Theater- Scenes From A Memory and imegas...
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...live for tomorrow...
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Manunkind
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 08:25 |
King of Loss wrote:
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88
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Perfect and throw in A Change of Seasons
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Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence"
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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barbs
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Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 562
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Posted: July 01 2005 at 08:06 |
norbert88 wrote:
These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend:
*** Images and Words ***
*** Awake ***
*** Scenes From A Memory ***
norbert88 |
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Eternity
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Dream Theatre - any recommendations
