Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Polls
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Dream Theater
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDream Theater

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Poll Question: Overrated or not?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
14 [27.45%]
32 [62.75%]
5 [9.80%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
Message
Philrod View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dream Theater
    Posted: July 02 2005 at 04:09
Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 06:19

Let's see ... their best albums have average ratings of 4.42, 4.36 and 4.35. I fail to see why that should mean they're overrated.

By the way: How can anything be OVERRATED? Let the people decide ... and they have decided. I don't think that the 5 star reviews by fanboys cause an album to be overrated either, because you quickly get an equal amount of 1 star reviews by people who want to rectify the rating. In fact, this even causes the album to be underrated ((1 + 5) / 2 = 3. If the fanboy had rated it 4 stars, that might not have caused the "countervote").

I think that the current ranking algorithm properly addresses the problems ... Train Of Thought was overrated (top ten), and is now IMO properly rated (not even in the top 100 anymore).

Octavarium is currently at position 29, and it is likely to drop further (because I think that I agree with the public opinion that it is a 4 star album, and the average rating should settle somewhere around 3.9-4.0).

 



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 06:27

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 06:37

I've voted for correct reputation, although I'm not sure what it really means.

I'm sure that they are overated by some, but if one really loves something thats how it is.
I remember in my youth ( when I was a puppy!) my love of ELP was the same!

Also I am sure people undreate them too, i'll shut up now.

No wait, I agree with what Mike says also!

Back to Top
TheProgtologist View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 15:34
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

 



Back to Top
Dream Theater View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 14 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 2188
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 17:45
Another useless and stupid thread
[IMG]http://www.travelwithachallenge.com/Images/Travel_Article_Library/Sacred-Travel/Machu-Picchu-350.jpg"> [IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/panchopc1/machupicchu-1.jpg">
Back to Top
Arsillus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 18:32

Dream Theater is one of my favourite bands.

Ha!

Back to Top
Philrod View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 04:56
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

Thats exactky why I dont review dream theater, because I cant be objective! Labrie just pisses me off, because for me he ruins the experience. He has great skills, but tries too much to be emotional... But anyways this is why I don't review dream theater... even if I adore the rythm section, especially Mike Portnoy... as a bassist myself it's pretty easy to see that Myung can forget what the bass is all about. As Dave Mustaine puts it from  some guitarists he heard: Their skills are pretty amazing, but they desperately need ''rock class 101''!

Back to Top
Hierophant View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 05:19
Dt's biggest problem is portnoy. Hes been playing the same roles since he joined dream theater.
Learn some new rudiments for godsakes . He's a good guy and a great player but hes not on par with the other guys.


 Put mike mangini in there......  yea that guy is off the wall good.



Step aside mike!


Edited by Hierophant
Back to Top
Valarius View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:51

Correct reputation.

"Overrated" is a term people use when a band they dislike is getting more attention than their favourite band. "Underrated" is what they call their band.

Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:01

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Dt's biggest problem is portnoy. Hes been playing the same roles since he joined dream theater.
Learn some new rudiments for godsakes . He's a good guy and a great player but hes not on par with the other guys.

Step aside mike!

I take it you mean "rolls", not "roles". Anyway, Mike Portnoy is an exceptional drummer. If you want to hear his creative side, check out his playing with Transatlantic, or Neal Morse, or Liquid Tension Experiment.

BTW: His style in DT is also far from standard drumming. Of course, you have to listen carefully to hear it.

Finally, about Mike Mangini: He's quite good, but Virgil Donati smokes him in a pipe ... Watch Steve Vai's Live At The Astoria, the drum solo in particular, and listen to Vai's commentary.

Back to Top
boo boo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 09:36
overrated on music forums...underrated by the media.
Back to Top
Hammill View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 09 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 400
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:39
in my opinion DT will always be one of the best prog metal bands and nobody can say that they aren't. the problem is that prog metal is NOT based only on DT and there are so many bands out there which deserve our attention and support.
Back to Top
Cygnus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 12 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 520
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2005 at 02:35

OK they are a great group with magnificent songs but i canīt stand it when all their albums are considered as prog clasics.

Why some guys canīt stand the fact that some albums are simply good (falling into infinity, six degrees) or even uninspired (train of thought(a great metal album but far from progressive)).

No band can have only highlights anyway.

enjoy

Back to Top
Coya View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2005 at 16:46
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Let's see ... their best albums have average ratings of 4.42, 4.36 and 4.35. I fail to see why that should mean they're overrated.

By the way: How can anything be OVERRATED? Let the people decide ... and they have decided. I don't think that the 5 star reviews by fanboys cause an album to be overrated either, because you quickly get an equal amount of 1 star reviews by people who want to rectify the rating. In fact, this even causes the album to be underrated ((1 + 5) / 2 = 3. If the fanboy had rated it 4 stars, that might not have caused the "countervote").

I think that the current ranking algorithm properly addresses the problems ... Train Of Thought was overrated (top ten), and is now IMO properly rated (not even in the top 100 anymore).

Octavarium is currently at position 29, and it is likely to drop further (because I think that I agree with the public opinion that it is a 4 star album, and the average rating should settle somewhere around 3.9-4.0).

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to Top
King of Loss View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16544
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2005 at 16:49
Correct Reputation
Back to Top
Coya View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2005 at 16:55
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

Even though objectivity is very important, subjectivity is the escence of any opinion, and a review a very opinion-like analysis. Of course that one should point the musician's talent, but if you don't like it, it's over, you cannot give him a good qualification because it does not fullfill you completely; and that is exactly what subjectivity determines. Don't missunderstand me, objectivity is VERY important and necesary, but you cannot (and IMO should not) try to leave subjectivity, it's what makes a review (or an opinion) YOURS.

Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2005 at 17:52
Originally posted by Coya Coya wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

Even though objectivity is very important, subjectivity is the escence of any opinion, and a review a very opinion-like analysis. Of course that one should point the musician's talent, but if you don't like it, it's over, you cannot give him a good qualification because it does not fullfill you completely; and that is exactly what subjectivity determines. Don't missunderstand me, objectivity is VERY important and necesary, but you cannot (and IMO should not) try to leave subjectivity, it's what makes a review (or an opinion) YOURS.

You have a point there ... but the importance of subjectivity IMO depends on what you are reviewing:

If you review Opeth vocals, your verdict will be entirely subjective. I could also be wrong about this, but there is really no point of reference that you could use to objectively rate Mikael's growls.

If you review LaBrie's vocals, you have many objective criteria for that type of singing - phrasing, range, tremolo/vibrato, breathing ... and he does all that very well. I guess that even if you really don't like his VOICE, you still have to admit that he's a good singer. His TECHNIQUE is flawless.

So while you are free to rate Opeth vocals anywhere from 1 to 5 stars, IMO LaBrie can only be rated in the range of 3 to 5 stars, IF the reviewer want's to be taken seriously. It's either 3 stars (good singer, but I hate his voice), 4 stars (good singer, but not my favorite) or 5 stars (brilliant singer, my all time favorite).



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
Back to Top
ShaunoNoNo View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: July 15 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 92
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2005 at 03:17
I gave them 'correct reputation', because they're a bunch of talented musicians, maybe over-rated by some, but you'll get that with almost every band.
Back to Top
Coya View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 73
Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2005 at 14:18
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Coya Coya wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Philrod Philrod wrote:

Just wanted to know the overall feel on this site. I personally think they are overrated, even though I like them, but I can't stand James Labrie . Petrucci Myung and Portnoy are a great three IMO. Rudess is ok.

Whether you like LaBrie or not shouldn't affect your rating. If you think that he's a bad singer, it should affect the rating ... but he is not. His technique, range and phrasing are excellent, it's just a matter of personal taste if you like his voice or not.

I think that the ability to separate personal taste and objective analysis of the music is vital to writing good reviews. I try myself, but it isn't always easy.

Even though objectivity is very important, subjectivity is the escence of any opinion, and a review a very opinion-like analysis. Of course that one should point the musician's talent, but if you don't like it, it's over, you cannot give him a good qualification because it does not fullfill you completely; and that is exactly what subjectivity determines. Don't missunderstand me, objectivity is VERY important and necesary, but you cannot (and IMO should not) try to leave subjectivity, it's what makes a review (or an opinion) YOURS.

You have a point there ... but the importance of subjectivity IMO depends on what you are reviewing:

If you review Opeth vocals, your verdict will be entirely subjective. I could also be wrong about this, but there is really no point of reference that you could use to objectively rate Mikael's growls.

If you review LaBrie's vocals, you have many objective criteria for that type of singing - phrasing, range, tremolo/vibrato, breathing ... and he does all that very well. I guess that even if you really don't like his VOICE, you still have to admit that he's a good singer. His TECHNIQUE is flawless.

So while you are free to rate Opeth vocals anywhere from 1 to 5 stars, IMO LaBrie can only be rated in the range of 3 to 5 stars, IF the reviewer want's to be taken seriously. It's either 3 stars (good singer, but I hate his voice), 4 stars (good singer, but not my favorite) or 5 stars (brilliant singer, my all time favorite).

Absolut agreement. I like waht you posted because you make the point with "objectivity" just as i made mine with "subjectivity" (or at least I think I did). So, in my opinion, a  good combination of both criteria would be optimal. Greetings MikeEnRegalia (and everyone else too!)

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.223 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.