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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 03:09 |
This putz can go f*ck himself. he brings out (some) valid points about prog, but these mean nothing without context, especially when placed in such a biased environment. he obviously has very little knowledge of 'music' (classical, jazz, etc.), and instead believes music solely means entertainment/pop. if he was so disgusted by the works of Yes, no doubt classical music would disgust him even more (being even farther removed from the 3-chord thrash he desires). it's really too bad that all he looks for in music is the simplest common denominator, and the fact that he can't see that 'punk' has 'sold-out' much more than prog ever could have. putz.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 04:58 |
You destroy what you don't understand.We can all make a virtue out of ignorance.As long as you enjoy what you enjoy and don't harm others then nothing else matters.Punks are defined by their hatred of others (and themselves perhaps ??).They have nothing of interest to say.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 05:49 |
NetsNJFan wrote:
This putz can go f*ck himself. he brings out (some) valid points about prog, but these mean nothing without context, especially when placed in such a biased environment. he obviously has very little knowledge of 'music' (classical, jazz, etc.), and instead believes music solely means entertainment/pop. if he was so disgusted by the works of Yes, no doubt classical music would disgust him even more (being even farther removed from the 3-chord thrash he desires). it's really too bad that all he looks for in music is the simplest common denominator, and the fact that he can't see that 'punk' has 'sold-out' much more than prog ever could have. putz. |
it also makes no sense...why would you want to limit yourself to one style of music?, i dont, i love many forms of hard rock and classic rock, alternative rock and grunge, prog rock of course, blues, jazz, some country and bluegrass and some metal and yes even punk...you really have to be pretty damn stubborn to limit yourself to one genre and then say everything else is crap...but a lot of punks and metalheads are like that, and thats why they piss me off sometimes.
Edited by boo boo
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bogdan.
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:00 |
You are right about that: "he obviously has very little knowledge of
'music' (classical, jazz, etc.), and instead believes music solely
means entertainment/pop. ", but you still didn't get it, that he's not
talking about music, but people who's thinking to make money with music
(as I sad it before). Not just some prog musicians, but all kind "pop
"music"".
There are people who creates music and people who sells music. (1st
kind of people sometimes become "sell music" people, that is here a
problem).
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GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
Carpe Diem!
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bogdan.
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:05 |
bogdan. wrote:
You are right about that: "he obviously has very little knowledge of
'music' (classical, jazz, etc.), and instead believes music solely
means entertainment/pop. ", but you still didn't get it, that he's not
talking about music, but people who's thinking to make money with music
(as I sad it before). Not just some prog musicians, but all kind "pop
"music"".
There are people who creates music and people who sells music. (1st
kind of people sometimes become "sell music" people, that is here a
problem).
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Mr. NetsNJFan I meant.
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GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
Carpe Diem!
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:10 |
bogdan. wrote:
but you still didn't get it, that he's not
talking about music, but people who's thinking to make money with music
(as I sad it before). Not just some prog musicians, but all kind "pop
"music"".
There are people who creates music and people who sells music. (1st
kind of people sometimes become "sell music" people, that is here a
problem).
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Yes, but as Boo Boo stated, this guy spends time criticising albums
like Sgt Peppers, which are so innaccesible (for their time) that it is
inconceivable that the artists thought they were making a recodr that
would sell and make them lots of money. I very much doubt many prog
bands (except Asia and the like, if you can call them prog bands) were
motivated by desire for material gain (beyond enough money to make a
comfortable living). The artists he attacks are the artists that were
creating the music they wanted to and just happened to become
successful. It is bands that deliberately mimicked these greats that
should come under criticism if what you say is the main theme of this
article. Ironically there were far more bands that cashed into the punk
movement than ever cashed into prog.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:13 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
bogdan. wrote:
but you still didn't get it, that he's not talking about music, but people who's thinking to make money with music (as I sad it before). Not just some prog musicians, but all kind "pop "music"".
There are people who creates music and people who sells music. (1st kind of people sometimes become "sell music" people, that is here a problem). |
Yes, but as Boo Boo stated, this guy spends time criticising albums like Sgt Peppers, which are so innaccesible (for their time) that it is inconceivable that the artists thought they were making a recodr that would sell and make them lots of money. I very much doubt many prog bands (except Asia and the like, if you can call them prog bands) were motivated by desire for material gain (beyond enough money to make a comfortable living). The artists he attacks are the artists that were creating the music they wanted to and just happened to become successful. It is bands that deliberately mimicked these greats that should come under criticism if what you say is the main theme of this article. Ironically there were far more bands that cashed into the punk movement than ever cashed into prog.
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plus many punk bands seem to have only one ambition, get rich and famous.
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:18 |
I must say, Boo Boo. It's amazing the difference in responses to that
article between here and DDD. A lot of the responses on DDD were like
OMGZ!!!11 PUNX SUK!!11 one one.
It's refreshing to here the level of intellectual on this site, even though I don't agree with all the opinion expressed.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 06:33 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
I must say, Boo Boo. It's amazing the difference in responses to that article between here and DDD. A lot of the responses on DDD were like OMGZ!!!11 PUNX SUK!!11 one one.
It's refreshing to here the level of intellectual on this site, even though I don't agree with all the opinion expressed.
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that mainly has to do with the kind of people who are posting, i have come to learn that most progressive rock fans have an open mind and are not biased in a sense that they wouldnt try or respect other genres...DDD is run by metalheads who seem to think everything else is inferior, which is why i am put off by metalheads...im not saying that there arent metalheads out there with a open mind, i know there are some, but very few...anyway i like it here, screw DDD, whos need em?, i dont.
Edited by boo boo
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bogdan.
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:09 |
Yes, but as Boo Boo stated, this guy spends time criticising albums
like Sgt Peppers, which are so innaccesible (for their time) that it is
inconceivable that the artists thought they were making a recodr that
would sell and make them lots of money. I very much doubt many prog
bands (except Asia and the like, if you can call them prog bands) were
motivated by desire for material gain (beyond enough money to make a
comfortable living). The artists he attacks are the artists that were
creating the music they wanted to and just happened to become
successful. It is bands that deliberately mimicked these greats that
should come under criticism if what you say is the main theme of this
article. Ironically there were far more bands that cashed into the punk
movement than ever cashed into prog.
[/QUOTE]
That person had probably heard just those albums, so he critisized those albums.
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GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
Carpe Diem!
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bogdan.
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:10 |
boo boo wrote:
Forgotten Son wrote:
I must say, Boo Boo. It's
amazing the difference in responses to that article between here and
DDD. A lot of the responses on DDD were like OMGZ!!!11 PUNX SUK!!11 one
one.
It's refreshing to here the level of intellectual on this site, even though I don't agree with all the opinion expressed.
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that mainly has to do with the kind of people who are
posting, i have come to learn that most progressive rock fans
have an open mind and are not biased in a sense that they wouldnt try
or respect other genres...DDD is run by metalheads who seem to think
everything else is inferior, which is why i am put off by
metalheads...im not saying that there arent metalheads out there with a
open mind, i know there are some, but very few...anyway i like it here,
screw DDD, whos need em?, i dont.
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Here is another question. What do you now mean by telling open mind
people. People who listens all kind of music(pop, rap, and other crap),
or people who listens just music.
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GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying:
And this same flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
Carpe Diem!
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:23 |
bogdan. wrote:
boo boo wrote:
Forgotten Son wrote:
I must say, Boo Boo. It's amazing the difference in responses to that article between here and DDD. A lot of the responses on DDD were like OMGZ!!!11 PUNX SUK!!11 one one.
It's refreshing to here the level of intellectual on this site, even though I don't agree with all the opinion expressed.
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that mainly has to do with the kind of people who are posting, i have come to learn that most progressive rock fans have an open mind and are not biased in a sense that they wouldnt try or respect other genres...DDD is run by metalheads who seem to think everything else is inferior, which is why i am put off by metalheads...im not saying that there arent metalheads out there with a open mind, i know there are some, but very few...anyway i like it here, screw DDD, whos need em?, i dont.
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Here is another question. What do you now mean by telling open mind people. People who listens all kind of music(pop, rap, and other crap), or people who listens just music.
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well, open minded people dosent necessarly mean somebody who likes everything, it means music goers who can respect or appreciate every genre for what its worth...even if its a genre they dont like...speaking of which...not all rap is bad...im anything but a rap fan and i hate most of it, but at least when its done right rap requires a lot of skill, rhythm, timing and good lyrics...so i can appreciate rap when its done right(which it rarely is nowedays with the likes of chingy and nelly)...im no tupac fan, but hes a good example of how rappers can be poets, plus he was skilled on the mic....to be honest, i still get down to the funky beats of public enemy, RUN-DMC and the beastie boys every once in a while.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:16 |
The formatting ruining the first page makes this thread unreadable-
The "preview" button; it's your friend. Alternately: making a link.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:28 |
Well I can read it ok........and others have managed to contribute to this thread...
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:29 |
Teaflax wrote:
The formatting ruining the first page makes this thread unreadable-
The "preview" button; it's your friend. Alternately: making a link.
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i tried editing it, eh, ill edit it all out and let people find it themselves.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:48 |
boo boo wrote:
Teaflax wrote:
The formatting ruining the first page makes this thread unreadable-
The "preview" button; it's your friend. Alternately: making a link.
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i tried editing it, eh, ill edit it all out and let people find it themselves.
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Why? Because some smart-arse wants to smarm you?
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:20 |
Tony R wrote:
Why? Because some smart-arse wants to smarm you?
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Respect for the prospective reader, maybe? And what an odd use of "smarm"...
Thanks for fixing it, boo boo.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:27 |
Teaflax wrote:
Respect for the prospective reader, maybe? And what an odd use of "smarm"...
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Well nobody else has had any problems with it and presumably Boo Boo could read it ok (even if there was an attempt at "formatting").Therefore one would have to anticipate a problem that was not self-evident.Ergo you are being picky,and using an absolute (unreadable) which isnt warranted.Denigrating the whole thread because the original post is problematic for you.....
smarmy........the quality of applying smarm.
It's in my dictionary under "people more smarmy than me"
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:29 |
Like I've posted here before: early Punk and Prog had one very basic idea in common; that anything goes.
Their methods of creating something new and unique were very differen, but the spirit was the same. In the Court of the Crimson King and Siouxsie and the Banshees' Join Hands may not sound even remotely the same, but they're both cases artists expanding on our general musical universe by doing things that had not previously been done. You have to respect that, whether you want to listen to it or not.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:32 |
Tony R wrote:
smarmy........the quality of applying smarm.
It's in my dictionary under "people more smarmy than me"
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Well, smarmy would be "marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness", and I thought I was just being sharp and rude, which is kind of the opposite of ingratiating.
But you're right in that I used an absolute when I should have qualified it with "for me", and for that I do apologize.
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