Is Lars Von Trier an innovator, or just a clever

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   In the wake of world events that only remind us how fiction is ahead of history, and after re-watching Dogville... I wondered if, before falling into sinuous, almost swampy depths, Von Trier had not concocted a work of art where the music, the staging (which pays homage to and parodies the American playwright Thornton Wiler at the same time) and the plot are not used to reveal a lie, as Nietzsche himself had advocated.
Did Von Trier manage to create a synopsis with this film between his early experimentation and the iconoclastic maelstrom (where he left the audience in its wake) of the ending?
Despite being indebted to certain codes of the '60s and '70s, the film, in my opinion, contributes new elements that elevate it to the category of "new classic," one that pricks at the nerves, like true classics. The philosophy of the hammer.< defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92e88b201b9a1e86","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous">

Edited by Fercandio46 - Yesterday at 00:49

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Fercandio46 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: September 06 2023 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 30	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fercandio46 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Is Lars Von Trier an innovator, or just a clever Posted: Yesterday at 00:48
	In the wake of world events that only remind us how fiction is ahead of history, and after re-watching Dogville... I wondered if, before falling into sinuous, almost swampy depths, Von Trier had not concocted a work of art where the music, the staging (which pays homage to and parodies the American playwright Thornton Wiler at the same time) and the plot are not used to reveal a lie, as Nietzsche himself had advocated. Did Von Trier manage to create a synopsis with this film between his early experimentation and the iconoclastic maelstrom (where he left the audience in its wake) of the ending? Despite being indebted to certain codes of the '60s and '70s, the film, in my opinion, contributes new elements that elevate it to the category of "new classic," one that pricks at the nerves, like true classics. The philosophy of the hammer. < defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92e88b201b9a1e86","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous"> Edited by Fercandio46 - Yesterday at 00:49

moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18346	Post Options Post Reply Quote moshkito Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Yesterday at 10:23
	Hi, I have not, been a fan of Lars Von Trier, even though a lot of his films are challenging, in that it is rather obvious that he likes to chase/try the status quo of just about anything, be it political, personal, sexual, or any other thought or idea. That is a side that has brought a lot of film into being seen in the 20th century, and how so much was done and used for the sake of getting some attention, and it is no secret ... do something different and everyone will notice, and the Vatican is always ready to open its mouth and yet again help a lot of films make it through, though they have been mostly about Italian films, and not foreign ones. I have not, exactly enjoyed some of his films ... and found them rather boring, and specially bad (and not listed on Wiki!!!) is the Medea film, that should have been about misogyny and not Medea being a witch or something else male designed and abused through out history. In the end, this is a side of things that is really difficult and the film history is full of examples, and while nudity is not an issue for me, it was more often that not used to show off and get folks to buy tickets to see the film. In Europe, this has not exactly been the case, since WW2, however, in Italy, the Vatican opened its mouth one time too many and it made a lot of films famous, specially one like Deep Throat that went on to help develop video and get it in everyone's house. The visual side of his films, with what we would originally consider psychedelic, is something that I personally do not find interesting at all, and sometimes I find it just a show, not exactly part of the film, but there are a couple of things I have not seen and I might change my opinion on that subject. Getting many of his films is tough ... I've only seen Melancholia, Breaking the Waves and Medea ... and in general, I found them boring, and his version of Medea via T. Dreyer is not very good, and Dreyer's play is a repeat of the same story with nothing new to tell us! Hopefully I can see a few more films and suggest more though I do not think of his work, so far, as major or that important. Edited by moshkito - Yesterday at 14:30
	Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com

Lewian Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15351	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lewian Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Yesterday at 15:36
	Browser issues are back... < defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92ed9f951d79e523","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous"> < defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92eda137be89e523","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous"> Edited by Lewian - Yesterday at 15:38

Lewian Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15351	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lewian Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Yesterday at 15:37
	I absolutely love Europa and the first two series of The Kingdom (haven't seen the third one yet). Innovative? Absolutely, no doubt about that. Pretty much every von Trier film I've seen was original, not like anything else I've seen, however I have problems with his later films. Indeed it seems he sometimes breaks the rules and does provocative stuff just for the sake of it, and I find it harder to watch his later films (and there are now many that I haven't seen). I went out of Dogville not sure whether I liked it or not, or wehtehr I'd recommend it to anyone else, but certainly it was a strong and unique film. A film that annoyed me to some extent though. Which I'd basically say about all von Trier films after Europa (but that doesn't mean they're not good). < defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92eda00a3d86e523","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous"> < defer="" ="https://static.cloudflareinsights.com/beacon.min.js/vcd15cbe7772f49c399c6a5babf22c1241717689176015" integrity="sha512-ZpsOmlRQV6y907TI0dKBHq9Md29nnaEIPlkf84rnaERnq6zvWvPUqr2ft8M1aS28on72PdrCzSjY4U6VaAw1EQ==" -cf-beacon=""rayId":"92eda25e9e30e523","Timing":"name":"cfExtPri":true,"cfL4":true,"cfSpeedBrain":true,"cfCacheStatus":true,"version":"2025.3.0","token":"717409392a644498b4dbcbfbeafd4181"" crossorigin="anonymous"> Edited by Lewian - Yesterday at 15:39