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Your one and two star album ratings?
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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Points: 21477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2025 at 06:56
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

He's not a tough judge, he's a bizarre judge, just look at what he gives 5's
Bizzare is rating Metal Fatigue one star. We all have different tastes.


What can I tell you, I've tried. He's way too indulgently noodly for my tastes. I recognize he's hugely talented and I love his stuff in other people's bands but solo he does nothing for me. In my defense I mainly use Gnosis for my own benefit to track my collection and only rate albums I like on PA.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - March 30 2025 at 06:56
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^I was trying to make a point. Paul gets a lot of negative and sometimes hateful comments about his musical tastes. It is not bizarre what he likes, and PA forum members don't need to attack him because of it.

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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

 
Many of you know that I consider a two star "D" grade album to be one that I think my brothers and I could do as well, maybe even improve upon. Any three star "C" grade album I consider to be weak for musicians calling themselves "professionals." 
That reads like a very harsh interpretation, given that the PA description of *** is "Good but non-essential". I give *** to lots of albums I like (as they are "good"). I even give ** to albums that I may like in some respect, despite severe shortcomings.  I interpret *** as "good" in a prog universe, meaning that this is already much better for me (as I like prog as a genre, as far as it is a genre) than most albums from genres I don't particularly like, i.e., I'd give a *** review to albums that I like quite a bit better than most random albums selected from all of music. My ** here are still mostly above average in a general ranking of all music. If I could only give **** and ***** to albums I really like, there wouldn't be much space for differentiation.

I realise from this and other discussions that compared to the general standards here I may rate things too low, although I don't think I do, taking into account the descriptors (at least the *** one). Also, I really think it should be acknowledged that ratings are subjective, and if I give an album * or **, it doesn't mean that I say it's objectively and generally bad. It's just my view. No reason to be insulted or annoyed. I don't really get the apparent outrage if I give an album * or ** that somebody else likes. Tastes differ, no way around that (although I accept that there is inappropriate wording, either insulting, or presenting an opinion as more objective and general than it is). I find reviews that go with lower ratings often informative, so for some time at least I thought there's nothing wrong with that. I like some stuff more than others, and I even find some stuff cringeworthy, and it's just honest if I write that, with some explanation, in a review.

Sadly there is the dominating impression (maybe correctly so) that lower ratings damage artists (not sure whether a low rating is worse than none though), so I feel somewhat bad about rating things low. On the other hand, I also feel that giving **** and ***** is worth more if many albums get ** or ***, and less, if I rate everything that I rate highly. Difficult! I'd like to live in a world in which I could honestly express my dislike of an album without damaging the artist or potentially insulting anyone, but this doesn't seem to be the world we're in.   Ouch


Edited by Lewian - March 30 2025 at 08:03
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

I cannot argue with that. The WALL being my least favorite PF album still gets a 3.5 from me... Even a great bands worst album is usually a halfway decent album.

I haven't looked at your ratings, but you surely can't rate The Wall below The Final Cut? I can't imagine that's possible? Putting it below AMLOR would also be quite surprising, but that's another story...



I forgot about ‘The final cut’ and I honestly don’t even consider it to be a real PF album , but you are right… it’s much worse. I probably should have said the Wall is ONE OF my least favorites, along with Endless River as well. My obsession with PF really ended after Animals. But I can tolerate ‘Momentary Lapse of reason’ somewhat.

Just because I personally don’t like an album does not mean it’s necessarily a ‘Bad’ album. There are many many ‘great’ 4 and 5 star albums that I don’t like much.

Edited by Valdez - March 30 2025 at 08:41
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^I was trying to make a point. Paul gets a lot of negative and sometimes hateful comments about his musical tastes. It is not bizarre what he likes, and PA forum members don't need to attack him because of it.



I won't speak for Paul but my impression was he always treated it as a badge of honor. People have been sl*g.ing off my music taste for over 40 years and I just treat it as people with different tastes.
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^ Paul has not seemed reluctant or shy about proclaiming what he likes and doesn't like, what he thinks good and bad, be it in music or politics (before), no matter how much it goes against the grain with most. I'm fine with people liking what they like as long as it does not seem to be harmful to others or themselves. I accept that people have different tastes. And I like to have discussions with people where we have different tastes to try to figure what we like and/or don't like about the music. To dig down on that. I also am wont to try to engage in discussion and argument/ debate when someone makes claims with which I take issue. This is a discussion forum and it is to be expected, seeking justification is expected.

I have had my tastes called bizarre at this forum (i.e. very unusual, far from the norm) especially for my tastes when I was most into very experimental and dissonant music. My ears had become trained to it, and I have returned to some of that music in recent years and while it sounded normal to my ears then, it sounds bizarre to me now. I have had what I like called bad, or just noise, and in various cases I have tried to engage with those people in good faith to actually have a fruitful discussion one what constitutes noise, defines bad etc. but said people were commonly glib and not willing to try to explain their claims. Insults are easy, sarcasm is easy, actually trying to justify claims that one presents can be much harder. I wish I was better at explaining my thinking.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^I was trying to make a point. Paul gets a lot of negative and sometimes hateful comments about his musical tastes. It is not bizarre what he likes, and PA forum members don't need to attack him because of it.



I won't speak for Paul but my impression was he always treated it as a badge of honor. People have been sl*g.ing off my music taste for over 40 years and I just treat it as people with different tastes.

I have to say 'hateful' and 'attacking' are fairly strong words and I haven't seen much evidence of that to be honest. Paul does a lot of good things for this site and keeps the forums going with no end of polls and other material, and we have much to thank him for.

That said, Paul knows that I have long taken issue with his ratings, simply because they are often based on a single spin of an album, whilst he's simultaneously sat reading something heavy going. He has admitted that he's got as far as track three of an album, taken it off and given it one star because he thinks its awful.

I simply can't commit to a rating until I've heard something at least 4 or 5 times through; the artist deserves that at least? If I find it really outside my wheelhouse, then I might not rate it at all?

Paul seems to spread himself too thin, wanting to listen to as many albums as possible before he dies rather than get to know fewer albums more intimately, then struggles to give much justification for his unorthodox ratings when asked. His early VDGG ratings are a prime case in point here...
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I have only just caught up with this interesting discussion, and well remember that great discussion with Jared at The Acapela (we must do it again some time).

I made a conscious decision when I started my website not to give star ratings or other forms of numerical "bonus points". I find them far too restrictive, certainly only five stars without the halfway house of a half star. Further, they can cause a huge amount of upset with some artists (WHY is that album rated higher than mine?), and at the end of the day, opinions on music are entirely subjective, and there are several people here whose opinion can be, shall we say, interesting.

I too like Paul's contributions to this site, but Blackstar only two stars? I'm sorry, but that, to me, is a shocking rating. You do not need to be a Bowie fan (I am not particularly, certainly only a portion of his output) to understand what a deeply personal and important album that was, the circumstances under which it was made staggering.

The most important thing, as both Jared & Logan have said, is to respect the artist, and, to more the most important consideration, to UNDERSTAND what, why, how, and the process of an album, because it will have a meaning to the artist(s) who produced it. You might not get it. It doesn't mean it is not without merit or artistic value.
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^And how does a reviewer know the what, why, how, and meaning of a release by any artist?

Most artists, I assume, make records because of the joy of music. They do it for themselves, as they should, and not how it will be received. Rush and Zappa are two artists that come to mind that did what they wanted, not what others suggested. Zappa's last albums he made when he was dying weren't masterpieces.



Edited by Grumpyprogfan - March 30 2025 at 14:35
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^And how does a reviewer know the what, why, how, and meaning of a release by any artist?


By thinking about the release. By considering what songs, lyrics, concepts mean. Most importantly, how that meaning impacts the reviewer/listener.
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^Sure, but all that is subjective. Music is abstract and emotional. Does instrumental music need to be meaningful?
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Sure, but all that is subjective. Music is abstract and emotional. Does instrumental music need to be meaningful?

I highly doubt if a piece of instrumental music has NOT touched someone, somewhere, emotionally and is therefore meaningful to them.  The Star system only tells us what one single listener thought of a piece of music. 

There are many albums that are technically almost perfect, highly skilled musicians, spot on composition, vocal prowess, professional mixing and mastering ... That leave me cold. Music needs soul & spirit. 

Probably why I like Jumble Hole Clough better than Neil Morse LOL
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Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

Probably why I like Jumble Hole Clough better than Neil Morse LOL




Quite right too!
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Valdez Valdez wrote:

Probably why I like Jumble Hole Clough better than Neil Morse LOL




Quite right too!


Harrumph… Quite Right!
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^ Neil Morse ... that's the one who played with Mark Portnoy, right? Or am I confusing things now ... might have been Steve Wilson.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 31 2025 at 01:22
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Neil Morse ... that's the one who played with Mark Portnoy, right? Or am I confusing things now ... might have been Steve Wilson.
Yep! You're correct, MitchEnRegalia. That was indeed Steven Wilkins.

Edited by Hrychu - March 31 2025 at 01:25
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I made a conscious decision when I started my website not to give star ratings or other forms of numerical "bonus points". I find them far too restrictive, certainly only five stars without the halfway house of a half star. Further, they can cause a huge amount of upset with some artists (WHY is that album rated higher than mine?), and at the end of the day, opinions on music are entirely subjective, and there are several people here whose opinion can be, shall we say, interesting.
Holy smokes. At last! Someone on this forum gets it! ❤❤❤❤! This is exactly why I always prefer reviewing or rating albums without attaching a numerical score.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Neil Morse ... that's the one who played with Mark Portnoy, right? Or am I confusing things now ... might have been Steve Wilson.

You may be thinking of Neil Diamond! lol.    my dyslexia axing up again!

Edited by Valdez - March 31 2025 at 07:37
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^And how does a reviewer know the what, why, how, and meaning of a release by any artist?

Most artists, I assume, make records because of the joy of music. They do it for themselves, as they should, and not how it will be received.
...

Hi,

A review is not about any of us "having to tell you or others" what the album is about. A review is "an opinion" and it should stay there and nowhere else.

My main issue with some reviewers, is when the line is crossed, and then it becomes an attack on the musicians, or artists ... look, I can handle if you don't like the statue of Venus de Milo, or David ... for whatever religious reasons including sexual ... but you, or anyone else, have no right to judge it as horrible works of the human spirit.They still stand up as snap shots of a very different time and place, and most reviewers do NOT even try to frequent that area, for fear of being wrong, or out of sorts. Thus, many reviews, are just a bunch of subjective comments, that ... c'mon ... you call that a review?

Honestly, if the person does a review, simply to give the album a bad rating, I think that review should be removed, and the reviewer given an Admin comment or two ... not that it will help, but I'm not sure that PA is here to stand up to anarchic comments about anything. AND reviews, including the ratings, is not a place for those comments to show up at all ... because those would not be proper.

Here, though, is a very tough one on a musician that has done a whole bunch of music and based it on a book that has suffered horrible translations for nearly 1900 years or more ... and while I'm not going to say that the music, or the work itself is bad, I'm not going to review it, because it feels like another attempt at suggesting that one man was right in history and the rest of all of us, were not, and never will be! That thought is very scary for me, and implies the same type of "control" that many religions seek in order to get more from their "flock".

You could say that I'm tired of childish stories about history, and it may have started somewhere around the Greek days and nights, when all stories were changed to be something stupid ... and we go to school to believe the crap even more ... it's insane folks. And what we want is the same on reviews and ratings?
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^And how does a reviewer know the what, why, how, and meaning of a release by any artist?
...
...
A review is not about any of us "having to tell you or others" what the album is about. A review is "an opinion" and it should stay there and nowhere else.
...

Hi,

There is a problem here, sort of ... some albums, are very obviously right out front about something ... you have no doubt what "Demons Out" is all about, and goes on for 20 minutes! And you should not have any doubts about ITCOTKC at all, as an iconic and really well done snap shot of the time and place, complete with a "moonshine", as a hippie girl that is going to get taken and killed figuratively. Or even talking to the wind, and no one listening or giving a damn about the words ... one of the worst things on PA sometimes. We kinda love Ian, but it's like its stops there and everyone else is crap. Or the brainwashing with a religious bent, I would imagine, though I can not even come close to listening to those things, and the lack of realization that it is all based on a book that is the worst translation of anything ever done. But it makes people believe in the child story and fantasy of it all ... perfect for controlling the masses for quite a few centuries!

You may dislike Neil Young, but Ohio and a lot of his work, is not empty, or as I like to call it ... "mac & cheese" ... it is serious stuff and he sings with such strength and honesty that a lot of hard core rockers hate, because it makes their favorites sound bad ... really bad ... for trying that make believe stuff on you again ... makes me ask ... did we ever grow up beyond the childish stories!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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