Breakthrough albums

Hosydi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Genesis - Foxtrot Genesis was a cult band in the UK and the U.S. prior to A Trick of the Tail. Only 1976 saw their breakthrough, when A Trick of the Tail reached no. 3 in the UK and no. 31 in the U.S. It pulled them out of cult status to mainstream success and improved their financial situation.

Maybe in the US, I'm not so sure about the UK. Top Chart positions on the UK charts for the previous three albums to the release of A Trick of the Tail:

Foxtrot (12)
Selling England by the Pound (3)
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (10)

An 11 date tour of the UK, scheduled to begin October 29, 1974 to support the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, sold out in 4 hours. That part of the tour was rescheduled to 1975 due to Steve Hackett's injury to his hand.

Typically, in the UK, Genesis was playing roughly 2,000 seat theaters such as the Liverpool Empire Theatre, Usher Hall, Palace Theatre, etc 2-3 nights in a row before moving to the next city for a series of gigs. On April 14-15, 1975 they played at the Empire Pool, now known as Wembley Arena, which had a seating capacity of about 10,000.

The tour still lost money. Some locations, ticket sales were not good. Two dates at Toulouse, France were cancelled due to poor ticket sales. But, that was not the case in the UK. They may have not had the stature of a Led Zeppelin, Yes, Elton John, Who or ELP in the UK, but they were hardly a cult band in their home country in 1975. That would have been a more apt description of Gentle Giant or Camel.

Arguably And Then There Were Three took Genesis into another league commercial wise. It sold masses on the back of Follow You Follow Me and by 1980's Duke there were fewer bigger bands in Europe. For Genesis it was a gradual incline commercial wise with an inverse artistic decline at the same time. Go figure.

meAsoi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: meAsoi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: meAsoi wrote: Caravan (s/t debut) Music in a Doll's House  The Soft Machine Volume Two The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other Trespass This thread was supposed to be about albums that were breakthroughs for prog bands and not albums that were breaktrhoughs for prog. All the ones you listed are early albums for bands but they weren't their big breakthoughs imo. It seems your opening post missed the cue on "breakthrough" as the fanfare for the band's popularity. AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Trespass really? It sold 6,000 copies when it first came out. Maybe compared to the debut it was a breakthgough but for the band it wasn't. With Trespass, they had a significant breakthrough in Italy, a country more important for the genre than, for example, the US. Svetty, where's your proof that Trespass was a significant breakthough in Italy? That would be Nursery Cryme.  No, my post didn't miss anything, Svetty, you did! ;) You obviously don't know what breakthrough means in the larger context. Thanks for playing though Svetty.  Don't harass me; I'm not your "Svetty." Trespass was released in Italy through the Italian division of the major European label Phillips, under license from Charisma. It got success in Italy.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 19 hours 15 minutes ago at 21:45

Yes, I meant breakthrough as a prog band and when they became well known in prog circles but not necessarily to the masses. With that in mind I stand by my Foxtrot (or SEBTP at the latest). With Yes you can't go any earlier than TYA and with Floyd you could probably go as early as Ummagumma or AHM.

Hosydi wrote: Big Sky wrote: Hosydi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Genesis - Foxtrot Genesis was a cult band in the UK and the U.S. prior to A Trick of the Tail. Only 1976 saw their breakthrough, when A Trick of the Tail reached no. 3 in the UK and no. 31 in the U.S. It pulled them out of cult status to mainstream success and improved their financial situation. Maybe in the US, I'm not so sure about the UK. Top Chart positions on the UK charts for the previous three albums to the release of A Trick of the Tail: Foxtrot (12) Selling England by the Pound (3) The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (10) An 11 date tour of the UK, scheduled to begin October 29, 1974 to support the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, sold out in 4 hours. That part of the tour was rescheduled to 1975 due to Steve Hackett's injury to his hand. Typically, in the UK, Genesis was playing roughly 2,000 seat theaters such as the Liverpool Empire Theatre, Usher Hall, Palace Theatre, etc 2-3 nights in a row before moving to the next city for a series of gigs. On April 14-15, 1975 they played at the Empire Pool, now known as Wembley Arena, which had a seating capacity of about 10,000. The tour still lost money. Some locations, ticket sales were not good. Two dates at Toulouse, France were cancelled due to poor ticket sales. But, that was not the case in the UK. They may have not had the stature of a Led Zeppelin, Yes, Elton John, Who or ELP in the UK, but they were hardly a cult band in their home country in 1975. That would have been a more apt description of Gentle Giant or Camel. The 1976 tour, however, was a pivotal moment for Genesis. It is known that Genesis played to larger audiences than they had during previous tours. In North America, they performed at mid-sized theatres and arenas, significantly increasing the building of their fan base. In the UK, they played to sold-out crowds at venues like London's Hammersmith Odeon; concerts across continental Europe saw strong attendance figures as fans were eager to see how Genesis would perform without Gabriel. Cities like Paris (The Pavillon de Paris, approximately 10,000 spectators), Berlin (10,000), and Munich (15,000) hosted sold-out shows that contributed significantly to the overall success of the tour. Reviews from music critics praised both the album and live performances during this period, reinforcing Genesis' reputation as one of the leading progressive rock bands at that time.

I don't disagree with this. My original point was that in the UK, Genesis was no longer a cult band at the time they released A Trick of the Tail. Certainly by the time of the release of the Lamb, Genesis was at least a mid-level rock band in the UK. Selling England by the Pound made it to number 3 on the UK charts. That level of success suggests Genesis was more than a cult band in the UK.

verslibre wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Valdez wrote: I think Aqualung may have been Tulls “prog” breakthrough album. Maybe but I wasn't thinking the album had to necessarily be prog to be a breakthrough. Aqualung sounds more like proto prog to me and not quite full on prog. It's still a great album though. Aqualung is Tull's breakthrough album. It's an open-and-shut case.

Whether Aqualung was a Prog breakthrough or not, that album established Jethro Tull as a major headlining group that were playing in arenas such as Madison Square Garden in 71. Easily Tull's best-selling album.

meAsoi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: meAsoi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: meAsoi wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: meAsoi wrote: Caravan (s/t debut) Music in a Doll's House  The Soft Machine Volume Two The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other Trespass This thread was supposed to be about albums that were breakthroughs for prog bands and not albums that were breaktrhoughs for prog. All the ones you listed are early albums for bands but they weren't their big breakthoughs imo. It seems your opening post missed the cue on "breakthrough" as the fanfare for the band's popularity. AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Trespass really? It sold 6,000 copies when it first came out. Maybe compared to the debut it was a breakthgough but for the band it wasn't. With Trespass, they had a significant breakthrough in Italy, a country more important for the genre than, for example, the US. Svetty, where's your proof that Trespass was a significant breakthough in Italy? That would be Nursery Cryme.  No, my post didn't miss anything, Svetty, you did! ;) You obviously don't know what breakthrough means in the larger context. Thanks for playing though Svetty.  Don't harass me; I'm not your "Svetty." Trespass was released in Italy through the Italian division of the major European label Phillips, under license from Charisma. It got success in Italy. Don't say dumb things and mislead people and I won't harass you which I wasn't doing anyway and yes you most certainly are Svetty. Denying it won't make any difference. Everyone on here knows who you are so please cut it out! Navigating disagreements is tough, but accusing someone of being a clone without a single shred of evidence? Now that's not just bullying; it's like claiming the moon is made of cheese because your buddy doesn't believe in aliens. Embrace diversity of thought instead of resorting to such corrupt tactics!

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: No, it's really not. Stand Up made it to number 1 in the UK and number 20 in the US. If that wasn't their breakthough then we'd have to wait until And THen There were three to be the breakthrough for Genesis if not Duke which is just ridiculous and for Yes we would have to wait until Fragile (also ridiculous) and wait until Permanent Waves for Rush.. Also Benefit made it to number 11. Last I checked a breakthrough doesn't have to be a top ten or platinum selling album it just has to give a band wider notice and more popularity.

That paragraph could use a polish, but I'll roll with it. Per your criteria, Permanent Waves is too late into Rush's career because 2112 is the make-or-break album that saved them. If it didn't land, the label was going to drop them.

2112 because:

i. it sold faster than any of their previous albums;

ii. it outsold any of their previous albums;

iii. it was the next album after Fly by Night to enter the top ten Canadian Albums Chart;

iv. it went Gold in the States roughly a year-and-a-half after its release in 3/76;

v. the Massey Hall shows on the tour became the basis for their first live album, All the World's a Stage, which was issued six months later.

In a nutshell: no 2112, no Rush as we know them today. A similar scenario was faced by Queensrÿche, and Operation: Mindcime was the result.

(That's what you're looking for, right?)