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What ever happened to E.L.P.?
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    Posted: 15 hours 54 minutes ago at 00:41
Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but how come Emerson, Lake and Palmer barely even make the Prog Archives Top 100 these days? (Their debut album is at No. 93, and as far as I can tell, that's it.) Oh, I must admit I never thought they were as convincing as Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull or other 1970s contemporaries... But to see them surpassed by the likes of Camel, Renaissance and Focus... For someone who grew up in the 1970s that feels very strange. Have classics such as TRILOGY and BRAIN SALADE SURGERY fallen out of favour? I'd like to hear your ideas.
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I don't know---   New generations come up, new styles become favored.   For me, Tarkus is possibly the greatest album ever recorded, but it's never been as popular as it should be.

Good question though.
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ELP were once the biggest band in the world and they were incredibly talented. As a teenager, I got into them while they were on hiatus in the mid-70s and then they returned with Works Vol. 1.  I thought the group side was fantastic and stood up well against their previous albums.  ELP weren't afraid to mix up musical styles which messed with the heads of the prog purists and then they became targets of the high priests of punk.  Admittedly, Works Vol. 2 wasn't an album as such (I wished they had done more stuff like 'Bullfrog', which sounded like Shamal era Gong to me!) and despite the post-modern irony of the cover (lost on 'serious' prog fans), 'Love Beach' sounded jaded although it has some good moments.  I was lucky enough to see their last ever gig in London in 2010 which was a huge reminder of how great they were.  The year after, in the same slot, I saw Dream Theatre (I left early...what a load of crap)
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Their debut album was quite good. And the side long suite of Tarkus was excellent too [the side 2 was a collection of shorter songs, I remember, some of which were decent as well]. 'Works Vol 1' had it's high points as well. What I found average was their adaptation of the Mudgorsky's [I am sure I am spelling his name wrong ] classical suite.

I found their adaptations of songs like 'Karn Evil 9' on the live LP to be superior than the equivalent album versions. However, come the 80s and the band deteriorated in quality. However, even if I judge personally on a per capita basis of "number of great songs that I liked vis a vis total output", they lie far ahead of Genesis, for me, whose Phil Collins era my ears can't tolerate for no reason. 'Jethro Tull' had the brilliant Aqualung and the decent 'Thick As a Brick' but their early albums don't gel well with me.
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I am not a big fan of ELP but they do have a bunch of strong songs scattered across their 70s albums. I think what holds them back for me and the top 100 list is their bad filler/joke songs. With the exception of their debut all of their albums have several (or a whole LP side for Tarkus) short messy tracks that get on my nerves. When I read reviews of their albums these tracks often get criticism and cause people to lower their rating to 3 or 4 stars. Their debut album does not have this filler which is why it's my favourite from ELP and I'm not surprised it's the only top 100 album.

Basically they could have very high ranking albums but quality control lets them down. If their debut album contained Tarkus then I am confident that would be a top 20 album on the rankings, as the quality is there when they got serious.

Edited by LakeGlade12 - 12 hours 43 minutes ago at 03:52
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^ ELP officially disbanded in 1979 but reformed as ELPowell in 85/86 and produced one decent album.  They were back as '3' in 1988 with Robert Berry replacing Lake this time but this iteration was not as successful.
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Originally posted by LakeGlade12 LakeGlade12 wrote:

I am not a big fan of ELP but they do have a bunch of strong songs scattered across their 70s albums. I think what holds them back for me and the top 100 list is their bad filler/joke songs. With the exception of their debut all of their albums have several (or a whole LP side for Tarkus) short messy tracks that get on my nerves. When I read reviews of their albums these tracks often get criticism and cause people to lower their rating to 3 or 4 stars.

This is what I meant about ELP upsetting the purists - those songs provided some light relief from the heavier, lengthier stuff and showed off their versatility.  Poor ELP, not allowed to mess about.  Ham or cheese?
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" 'am or cheese?...."

No such thing as 'short messy tracks' on Tarkus.   Blasphemer!  Wink
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Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but how come Emerson, Lake and Palmer barely even make the Prog Archives Top 100 these days? (Their debut album is at No. 93, and as far as I can tell, that's it.) Oh, I must admit I never thought they were as convincing as Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull or other 1970s contemporaries... But to see them surpassed by the likes of Camel, Renaissance and Focus... For someone who grew up in the 1970s that feels very strange. Have classics such as TRILOGY and BRAIN SALADE SURGERY fallen out of favour? I'd like to hear your ideas.
The tunes from bands like Camel and Renaissance are super melodic. Today's listeners will find that such bands have a more cohesive sound across their albums; that vibe is totally what most prog-rock fans today are all about. Emerson, Lake & Palmer were the original prog rock supergroup that everyone looked up to back in the day, mainly because of their insane technical skills. To be candid, though, the technical brilliance of Emerson, Lake & Palmer from the early seventies has been thoroughly outshined by contemporary talents.
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In the US in the 70s they were quite a bit more popular than Genesis. However, these days the PG era of the band is much more widely appreciated than Genesis (even outside of prog circles). Even Gentle Giant are appreciated and more known (at least to prog fans). These days I'd say it's mostly classic rock fans and not so much prog fans who appreciate them. I'm talking about the fans from the old days. I doubt many younger music fans (of any genre) think too much of them. 

My opinion is that the internet helped convince people that they were too overblown and not as good as other prog bands and people believed it. Before I got online I never really heard anything bad about ELP. Some of their songs were played quite a bit on rock radio probably up until the early 2000s or so. These days I don't think they even get played much on classic rock radio (or any radio). Yes had almost the same fate but at least they are still lauded by most prog fans.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 9 hours 27 minutes ago at 07:08
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but how come Emerson, Lake and Palmer barely even make the Prog Archives Top 100 these days? (Their debut album is at No. 93, and as far as I can tell, that's it.) Oh, I must admit I never thought they were as convincing as Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull or other 1970s contemporaries... But to see them surpassed by the likes of Camel, Renaissance and Focus... For someone who grew up in the 1970s that feels very strange. Have classics such as TRILOGY and BRAIN SALADE SURGERY fallen out of favour? I'd like to hear your ideas.
The tunes from bands like Camel and Renaissance are super melodic. Today's listeners will find that such bands have a more cohesive sound across their albums; that vibe is totally what most prog-rock fans today are all about. Emerson, Lake & Palmer were the original prog rock supergroup that everyone looked up to back in the day, mainly because of their insane technical skills. To be candid, though, the technical brilliance of Emerson, Lake & Palmer from the early seventies has been thoroughly outshined by contemporary talents.


What contemporary talents in particular do you have in mind?
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I prefer several ELP albums to anything by Camel, Renaissance, Van der Graaf Generator, and Focus.
However, I understand and agree with many of the previous post's proposed explanations . 


Edited by omphaloskepsis - 9 hours 18 minutes ago at 07:17
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"I wished they had done more stuff like 'Bullfrog', which sounded like Shamal era Gong to me!"


It's funny you mention that because even before I heard any Gong I imagined that that is what they sounded like. Just a few nights ago I was playing Angel's Egg and the thought popped in my head how I was sort of right after all (not all of it but some of it). I think I initially came to that conclusion because I read that Gong used saxophones and percussion and there's a lot of that on "bullfrog."



Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - 9 hours 19 minutes ago at 07:16
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You are dead wrong about ELP. All their early LPs should be ranked in the Top 100.

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Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

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I disagree. Tarkus is half of an amazing album and half filler. Trilogy is more listenable and my favorite by the band but doesn't have any real standouts (The Endless Enigma and the title track are fine songs but obviously can't be compared to Tarkus or Karn Evil 9). Brain Salad Surgery is the only other album besides their debut I think could be deserving of the top 100.
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Originally posted by BasedProgger BasedProgger wrote:

I disagree. Tarkus is half of an amazing album and half filler. Trilogy is more listenable and my favorite by the band but doesn't have any real standouts (The Endless Enigma and the title track are fine songs but obviously can't be compared to Tarkus or Karn Evil 9). Brain Salad Surgery is the only other album besides their debut I think could be deserving of the top 100.

Hi,

I find this sad, and perhaps not quite looked at ... AT THE TIME ... and what most bands were doing. ELP put together a PIANO CONCERTO (Tarkus), done in those early styles with loud and bombastic keyboards ... but the day that you sit and listen to Rachel Flower do this on the piano, or organ, you will find right away that this is incredible ... and the side 2 of the album being "filler" ... how you gonna follow up a masterpiece? You and I would probably mess that up too! Your soup is gonna pale in comparison! What's the sugar doing here?

If there is something unusual and clear about ELP was their take on classical music, but when you hear them on a cold night and an empty stadium in Montreal ... the first thing you can say is ... wow! 

I think a lot of folks, in those days, were kinda new to the FM radio band and its lack of "hits" and many of those stations put on a lot of stuff, and of course, sooner or later, the sheriff would be fun to play to lighten up the evening amidst overstuffed materials in rock music. 

I believe that part of the issue is that we dislike classical music, and on top of it, we want the hits ... not the album ... and as someone specified these days, no one buys the album, only the song they want, so in essence most folks don't know the band, and worse ... they don't care, because they want the hits,  (per Mike Rutherford, btw) and are not interested in the album at all! This is what the "commercial" status of the whole progressive and progrock thing has come to ... it has to have a number and be listed for most folks to even bother checking it out ... never mind the rest of the band! 

I kinda think that the record companies are laughing all the way to the bank, still collecting their nickels and dimes via the streaming services they own. It's still a sort of "singles" bar, isn't it? Who cares about the person when all you want is ... Tongue

Good thing you are not a true musician with several albums ... you would have died a long time ago! Wink


Edited by moshkito - 6 hours 54 minutes ago at 09:41
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

^ ELP officially disbanded in 1979 but reformed as ELPowell in 85/86 and produced one decent album.  They were back as '3' in 1988 with Robert Berry replacing Lake this time but this iteration was not as successful.


If only we'd have gotten another album by Emerson, Lake & Powell in lieu of 3's (bad choice for a band name, too).
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I must admit I still find TARKUS, TRILOGY and BRAIN SALAD SURGERY hugely enjoyable - and that includes TARKUS' B-side. I never had a problem with ELP's throwaway ditties. If Genesis could get away with 'Harold the Barrel', why can't ELP do 'Benny the Bouncer'? (Only 'Jerusalem' is a track I prefer to skip: far too pompous, just like most of PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION.)
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