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Is there a general rule behind your tastes?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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^ Like I said, given the proper circumstances. I like to listen to music while coding, and for example last year I listened a lot to KGatLW's Silver Cord (the extended version). Cool

Edit: I'm a big fan of Ayreon as well, and of course there's often not enough time to listen to the full album in one sitting. At AP I'll often create a playlist entry when I've started listening to a release, but there is no guarantee that I'll finish listening. Sometimes I'll resume later - it's not an exact science LOL


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 07 2025 at 08:27
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Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

1. Balance. All aspects of the music/vocals need to be on equal footing. If it's all about the vocals, I turn it off. If the bass & percussion play a minor time-keeping roll, I turn it off. If the guitar or keys feel like they own the stage, I turn it off. Everyone needs to contribute. Solos are OK (even great!), just don't hog the stage for the duration of the piece.

2. Instrumental over Vocals. I prefer instrumentals, but if there are vocals, they need to be done as if they are another instrument in the band. Work with the band, not in spite of them. Vocals are not obligatory. You need an honest justification of why there are vocals at all.

3. Honest vocals. If the singer thinks they are the greatest vocalist on earth and fill their singing with runs and other vocal gymnastics or contrived emotions, I turn them off.

4. Skilled musicianship. If the band thinks they can hide their lack of musicianship and composition with noise, loudness, brashness, or randomness -- it's not working.

5. Lyrics. I prefer wordless vocals or nonsensical vocals over someone trying to "explain" the point of the song. If the words do make sense, I prefer they be about fantasies, dreams, unreal situations. Love songs, or politics, or anger about anything? I turn them off.

6. Composition. I don't like standard verse-chorus compositions. Dull and bland. I like diversity and surprise (but not randomness), and the change-ups should not derail the overall expression, emotion, or mental picture of the piece.

7. Timbre. The overall timbre of a piece should be warm, inviting, soothing or even intriguing or playful or thought-provoking or fantasy-inducing. But if it is harsh, brash, loud, or prickly, I turn it off.

These are all preferences as opposed to hard-and-fast rules, and they are mostly applied subconsciously. I can usually tell just by listening to several 5 second snippets of a track whether I will like it or not.

Interesting. We match a lot actually!

I didn't particularly bring up that notion of balance, but I think I can relate.
One thing I love with Pendragon is that, even though it revolved a lot around the guitarist and singer Nick Barrett, the other musicians really contribute a lot and are remarked. If you go through the comments under a song like Breaking the Spell, there will be comments about how great and enthusiastic Scott Higham is, others lauding Clive Nolan, and others about Nick Barrett. Peter Gee is a bit more "discrete", but there are many songs that would just not be the same without his contribution; I love how he and Nick Barrett together work in harmony on Shane, the Chaos out of order version; at around 3:30 or something, there is a bass line that always hits me, kinda hidden under the guitar solo.
Another interesting example is that of Silhouette, where the lead vocals alternate, and everyone sings in a quite different way. This particularly shines on Across the Rubicon.
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Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I realize that sounds sacrilegious to those who consider music lyrics very important, and I say it not to insult anyone here. It's just my own feeling.

I'm not sure it really is. You seem in line with the other comments bringing up lyrics.
Even in my case, I say lyrics and theme are important, but overall what matters is the "theme" conveyed, and that covers a wide spectrum (and it's also negative: lyrics are important in that they're a good occasion for me to dislike the music). Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn is one of my all time favorite, and it's mostly lyricless. There's just a little moment near the end when he says some lines in Gaelic, and it's something like "you idiot, drink some milk" and later "I like horseriding", and I'm totally fine with it, because the piece of music itself has conveyed more than most bands throughout their entire career, the music speaks for itself.
Another case is that of Sigur Ros (not prog): in Varud, in the clip, they even tell in Morse that the words don't matter, and that what mattters is the experience of the listener.
And when you say that you're not really interested in political songs and the like, that matches what most here are about. Although personally I do appreciate how Rick Miller for instance brings literature to his music.


Edited by Lights Faces - February 07 2025 at 08:41
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Originally posted by Lights Faces Lights Faces wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I realize that sounds sacrilegious to those who consider music lyrics very important, and I say it not to insult anyone here. It's just my own feeling.

I'm not sure it really is. You seem in line with the other comments bringing up lyrics.
Even in my case, I say lyrics and theme are important, but overall what matters is the "theme" conveyed, and that covers a wide spectrum (and it's also negative: lyrics are important in that they're a good occasion for me to dislike the music). Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn is one of my all time favorite, and it's mostly lyricless. There's just a little moment near the end when he says some lines in Gaelic, and it's something like "you idiot, drink some milk" and later "I like horseriding", and I'm totally fine with it, because the piece of music itself has conveyed more than most bands throughout their entire career, the music speaks for itself.
And when you say that you're not really interested in political songs and the like, that matches what most here are about. Although personally I do appreciate how Rick Miller for instance brings literature to his music.


I hear that and agree that certainly lyrics, when cleverly employed, can add to the experience. And I like occasional humor. Some might think me daft, but I might point to Bon Scott or Henry Rollins as more appealing and amusing lyrically than Bob Dylan or Roger Waters. Observations on culture done creatively and with humor would be much more appealing to me than perceived wisdoms pontificated from on high.




Edited by Finnforest - February 07 2025 at 08:54
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

1. Balance. 
...

Hi,

Absolutely ... and we would love it if some more bands heard that comment instead of over blowing the guitar ... in some metal stuff, for example ... no balance there.

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
2. Instrumental over Vocals. I prefer instrumentals, but if there are vocals, they need to be done as if they are another instrument in the band. 
...

This might not sound right, but here goes ... I'm not sure that someone grounded and growing on pop music, will be able to do this well at all, as they will often come back to the only stuff they know and when we might think that it is but 10/15% of the music cannon, then these folks would be severely lacking, which is the majority of bands in the listings these days. (Kudos to Sean Trane for a list on JMA that is above and beyond ... most of them!!!!!!!!)

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
3. Honest vocals. 
...

The toughest of all elements in rock music ... because the person that is singing more often than not is not the writer, and he/she has to bring up emotions that are not exactly belonging to them, and that acting is (usually) not very good. I saw YES on one of the last tours by Chris, and that singer needed to be fired ... sure he knew the lyrics, but if he were trying for a film role, or a stage role in NY/ or LA, he would be one of the first to be thrown out of the theater ... also using the worst stock hand this and that to make it look like the lyrics were great ... the worst show by a singer I have ever seen ... and this was a major band that OBVIOUSLY did not care much for the stuff that Jon had written ... it was not only disappointing to see this, it was ridiculous.

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
4. Skilled musicianship. If the band thinks they can hide their lack of musicianship and composition with noise, loudness, brashness, or randomness -- it's not working.
...

Not sure this is fair ... I like to think/say that at least a third of all the bands out there are too young to have the ability to employ skilled musicianship, specially when all they know is a format or two, which does not exactly take any skill. Skill might (and then again NOT) show up later, but in the younger days, all musicians can show some ability that is very promising, which can develop in a very skilled detail. But too much of the stuff listed is not about skill ... it's about a known ability and format and the bands that have this skill are usually listed in the bottom or not listed at all ... prog/progrock fans don't often seem to like an over blown clown show off his music skills amidst the rest of the band, and probably ruin the music. 

But this is a weird area ... I remember some 50 years ago, seeing on TV a whole bunch of Harlem kids playing all kinds of containers, and everything else they could with just tree sticks on their hands, and they made any drummer out there look stupid and horrible ... there was no music in the bands compared to what these kids were doing, and they were all teens at best!

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
5. Lyrics. 
...

If words mean anything any more, it would help, but they don't and the majority of progressive/progrock fans don't even listen to the lyrics ...otherwise they would comment on the various this or that about them. But no one cares ... nobody here even considers the great wordsmiths in rock music and probably Ian Anderson gets the most kudos, and while good, he is not exactly a poet, like Roy Harper. Or even Christian Decamps from Ange (not even sure which brother sings more!!!), who is a very emotional singer and quite expressive in all ANGE material.

But you can tell words don't mean poop much .... look at all the politicians talking and saying nothing ... what makes you think that a rock singer is any better?

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
6. Composition.
...

I think this is a joke, sometimes ... because so many of the stuff listed is so formatted ... so designed to make sure that the internet listener will stay with it, instead of turning it off. The top of the pops and idea of "composition" is something of the past when music was not available to the masses as there was no radio or tv ... and the only thing that became recorded history of music? ... composition! Rock music pretty much blew that out, and internet fans blew that out even more ... and if we take the years best 50, I don't think that we can draw a line about "composition" in at least half the folks on the list. And I would like to see a nice list like the one on PDQ Bach's biography! That would make my day! But rock bands don't have enough enjoyment of MUSIC beyond the format they play. I like Gayle's comment in Djam Karet ... that suggested any piece of music by them might start  with an A but they usually end up with a Z! Good luck trying to find someone cool enough to discuss the only three chords they know in their progrock act!

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

...
These are all preferences as opposed to hard-and-fast rules ...
...

You made a very nice list of a lot of things ... though I'm not sure that many of us ever think of any of these when we hear something ... I certainly don't since all I look for in the music is a "movie" ... in other words the music takes me away. Few lyricists can do this for me ... in the early days, Bob Dylan for sure, then Roy Harper, then Peter Hammill, and then a handful of others ... who know how to color their words and make the moves for them ... and end up making the music better. 

But there are many great examples ... not many folks have seen, or will see the movie "PERFORMANCE" which had Mick in it, and in that movie are two pieces that are incredible ... "Memo from Turner" is the piece which I think taught Mick how to use his lines on stage, and he has been faithful to his delivery and I would ever say that for a long time he was very good with the lyrics, and made them better than just words. It was one of the pieces that "made" MTV later ... a true rock video. And the other was a moment by The Last Poets, that is incendiary to say the least, but nobody wants to admit that there already was something going on with black folks, and their music was one of the highlights ... but today's internet fans couldn't careless about prophetic words ... which makes a lot of the things you wrote left behind ... but many of us actually listen for something ... but one of the bad sides of the internet is bands using their fans to write something that seems nice, to make the band look better, and often (Bandchump is a good example) what it says is actually a turn off and not even a good description of the music.

Good job ... enjoyed reading it.


Edited by moshkito - February 07 2025 at 12:08
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Not really. The most prominent characteristic the last years is probably: different. After listening to same-ish music for years (symphonic, neo, crossover), I found new ground and fell in love with variety, innovation and…progression!

It wasn’t surprising, as the same happened with my interest in movies and TV. I can’t stand the average action flick, superhero movies or in general movies that keep rehashing the same ideas and tropes that’s been used for decades, in a different setting. The ones worth watching are those that has original and exciting ideas.

Avant-garde is the “genre” I’ve listened to more, where anything can happen. I love music with sounds and ideas I’ve never heard before. Some can even be off-putting at first, but eventually become a great sound. I still listen to music that fit the usual intro-verse-chorus-verse-etc. format in some genre, but less than before. The thrill of finding something entirely different is an incredible experience.

I’ve perhaps listened to more instrumental than before, since instrumental music that really move me these days can be as good as that with vocals.
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Hi,

One last thing ... recently Rick Beato did a show with a guy named Bob something or other.

It wasn't a great listen, but it was valuable and had some history by way of the left fields in Neptune, that were good, and better words about the FM radio thing would have likely made a lot of the things he said a lot better, but instead he stuck with his put down of a lot of internet folks and their "credibility" and often talked about as if they were "special" and (probably) a bit more educated than simply promoting their favorite three bands. And Bob goes a bit further and calls many of them fake, and trash. It's really hard to disagree many times, since so much of it has become commercial this and that, and record companies love it, because their product is being discussed and that usually means some more money coming home.

But, in my book, I wish that people learned music history a bit more ... like there was no recorded music available to buy until 1945/1950 more than likely, and then rock and jazz blowing the doors open and creating "record stores" that really brought it all home ... before that ... there weren't enough folks with a music system to play things, and the only things you heard was what the radio played, and a lot of those things were studio mannequins so the studios could keep the money at home with their main actors singing. AND, don't forget, that in general the studios owned all the radio stations.

Fly forward 50 years, and it is all crazy and impossible to work on and I am not sure that things will get better in pop/popular music for another 50 years, when I think a line might be drawn between serious music and pop music ... one is studied and educated, and the other not ... although I would not want to say that all of it is real and the rest is just street music, and not worth the consideration ... there is a lot on the street that challenges all the ideas about music theory ... and we often don't like to admit it. The idea that the internet has made everything available and out there, has shown us that the ideas we have about music, are making it very difficult to get a consensus as to what/how it should be looked at. At that point, I suppose that we can suggest that composition is more important than a pop format, for example, something that a lot of fans here will not abide by or want to hear ... I can't blame them!


Edited by moshkito - February 07 2025 at 12:26
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Not one I particularly follow, but I've noticed that I tend to connect with a certain type of music in a certain window, and over time I seem to move on. After I've moved on, it's harder to connect with music of that type that's new to me, but I can still feel and appreciate the music I connected with in that window. For example, my favourite prog is almost all prog that I discovered in the era 2008-2012, and the few prog bands that I've come to love since then, tend to sound fairly different from what I listened to in that era, so it's like I was receptive to a different concept that they happened to have. I really got into a lot of Kpop in 2022/2023 but since then new stuff doesn't excite me much.

But I tend to listen to mixes of prog, "classic rock", classical, Kpop, metal, folk, indie, etc ... so I feel that my overall tastes are pretty broad, and I try to appreciate music for what it is rather than comparing it to something else. 
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There are some things that I will fairly predictably like, but a major thing is also surprise, and although one could say that's a rule as well, it basically means deviate from the rules I was aware of until now. Talk Talk - Spirit of Eden, some of the first albums I heard from Tangerine Dream (Rubycon, Zeit) or Art Zoyd, the first "angular post minimal" music I heard from Dawn of Midi and Sonar, King Crimson's Discipline, Holger Czukay's Movies and still even some of his later albums, the first album I heard from Cardiacs, Astor Piazzolla - Nuevo Tango Ora Zero, Camberwell Now's Ghost Trade.  These are among the biggest treasures because I couldn't have made up a rule according to which I should like them before actually listening to them (other than the surprise rule).

Edited by Lewian - February 07 2025 at 15:14
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I don’t have any strict rules when it comes to music—either it touches me, or it doesn’t. Sometimes, I feel like I don’t quite get it at first, so I listen again and again until I do (or don’t). That was my experience with Brand X, for example. The first time I heard Unorthodox Behaviour, it wasn’t that I disliked it—it was just too complex for me to fully grasp on the first listen. But after a few more plays, I grew to love it. The same thing happened with Compassionizer, some of Henry Cow’s compositions, and others.

I mostly listen to prog rock because its compositions resonate with me the most. But I’m not limited to it— for example, these French girls Delinquante. I absolutely love them, even though their music is pop, not prog.

Ultimately, I’m convinced there’s no such thing as "bad music." It all depends on the listener—their personal experiences, perception, life situation, and more. All music has value, we should be grateful that we can percept experience, and understand it.




Edited by DontTouchMe - Yesterday at 08:42
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No Rules whatsoever. I like what I like. my collection of herb Alpert LPs can confirm.
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First rule: We do not talk about what our music tastes are. (Outside of this group)

Second rule: If someone yells 'stop!', goes limp, or taps out, the music listening experience is over.

Edited by Jaketejas - Yesterday at 11:13
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I have difficulty appreciating music beyond 1989, so it is definitely generational for me. I love most music genres from medieval until the late 1980s, I guess. I like ancient folk songs like Greensleeves and Scarborough Fair, Renaissance music like Allemande by John Dowland, anything by Bach, Handel, or Scarlatti from the Baroque period, etc etc through classical, romantic, jazz, blues, soul, disco, and rock eras. I love how electronic instruments took their place in various subgenres (Prog, Krautrock, Synthpop, New Wave), etc., but I still love a good folk rock, rock, hard rock, or metal piece (from Caravan to Tool). When I write music, while I am looking to make a new song, I’m not really interested in making a new sound necessarily. Rather, I just let the song go where I feel it wants to go, and that usually involves blending genres with some quirkiness added in. My taste in the sound has to do with how the composition lands on my ears (even if the sound quality isn’t great) mixed with a large dose of nostalgia. I had hoped that music would go in a different direction than where it is today. I’m generalizing here (as I do still love some new music), but the lyrics seem a bit direct (lacking any mystery), and I’m not a fan of auto-tune, loud over-compressed music, or the breathy sappy Coldplay-like stuff that seems to have spawned from late U2 … though I love U2 from Joshua Tree and prior, where they had a great sound and message. I don’t like corporate music overproduced by an army of artists/engineers in support of super-artists. I prefer DIY music instead, where artists are putting out their ideas … which I think is more sincere. I have a love/hate relationship with streaming services. We knew from Hitchhikers Guide that the middleman was taking over, and that is so true. Spotify is a good example, as they’ve moved to a sort of Reverse Robinhood model where artists don’t get paid unless they receive 1000 streams per year for a song … instead taking their 30% cut and sending the rest upward to more “successful” artists. I applaud anyone who is willing to put out independent music in today’s world. Anyway, finding music that I enjoy is difficult due to changes in the culture of music, but sites like this help me to break out my mold a bit and explore new directions while maintaining my own quirky sensibilities. Dredging new areas helps me improve as an amateur musician, and that makes me happy.


Edited by Jaketejas - Yesterday at 12:51
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First of all....I rarely meet anyone that likes the same music as I. In retrospect I have mostly been on my own regarding that aspect. It's unusual I suppose...but I've never met anyone who liked SKY 2. I love that album! ...more than many Steve Hackett, Anthony Phillips, and early Genesis albums. SKY 2 I hold in the highest regard...but it's often disliked .

The Enid In The Region Of The Summer Stars I see as a Progressive Rock masterpiece. I've always payed more attention to European underground Progressive Rock bands than the big 5 or 6.

People used to say that I spoiled the party or gathering by playing Gong You.

I have many long extended shelves filled with Progressive Rock cds and when the moon becomes full...so do I.

I like certain Folk artists and one particular shelf contains many Steeleye Span cds, Fairport Convention, Sandy Denny, Fotheringay, Trees, Pentangle, and many unknown artists that play instrumental traditional Folk. To be in my presence when I play this stuff for hours is toxic to many.

I have large collections of Krautrock and RIO bands. I don't appreciate all the bands in these sub-genres. I appreciate musicianship, but I have low tolerance for clones. This is the side to Solaris that I struggle with. They are sometimes too reminiscent of Jethro Tull but I love Solaris and I collected their music for years.

I base a lot on style. If a band has changes in their music I get enjoyment out of it. For example, Conventum, ...Merlin by Halloween and the first 4 studio albums by Maneige. Julverne I love. Their stuff was rather overpriced but that didn't stop me. I have 6 cds.

I enjoy Brand X , ( first 6 releases) and Passport from Germany. I have always been fascinated with originality in music. Jade Warrior ( particularly Island period), Popol Vuh, Stomu Yamashta, and mostly obscure artists. Ingram Marshall and David Bedford, Wendy Carlos, Delia Derbyshire, Mort Garson, Beaver And Krause ,Ron Geesin, Ruth White and many others that I have collected over several decades I usually listen to privately.
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Mellotrons.  I love prog with lots of Mellotrons.  

Fuzz-tone guitar leads....likewise.

Rickenbacker bass guitars.....ditto.  

Melodic, moving vocals, either male or female....preferred, but I also love instrumental jazz-rock etc. 

Competent, even virtuoso, percussion is essential.  Broof? 

Everything else is negotiable.  I know good music when I hear it. 
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^ I love Sky and have all their CDs, including Cadmium, which took me forever to track down. I always say “It’s the OTHER John Williams,” who is actually very well known in classical guitar circles. It is actually very difficult to play classical guitar in a band situation, because the instrument was mainly a solo instrument for the longest time.
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Sky 2 - great album! Also has this surprise element I was talking about.
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Points: 1213 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 41 minutes ago at 13:54
Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

^ I love Sky and have all their CDs, including Cadmium, which took me forever to track down. I always say “It’s the OTHER John Williams,” who is actually very well known in classical guitar circles. It is actually very difficult to play classical guitar in a band situation, because the instrument was mainly a solo instrument for the longest time.


Interesting!!! I'm missing the live cd. I hoping one day to find it. Probably on Discogs.
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Jacob Schoolcraft View Drop Down
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Points: 1213 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 39 minutes ago at 13:56
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Sky 2 - great album! Also has this surprise element I was talking about.


Sky 2 is an album I never grow tired of.
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Points: 2130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 40 minutes ago at 15:55
^ If I see it again, I’ll be sure to let you know.
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