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Poll Question: Rank select Trek with Babylon 5 (for fun)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1990s Sci-Fi Series
    Posted: January 30 2025 at 20:43
I wanted to see how people felt about just these 3 series head to head---using Eduardo's system of ordering them all instead of just picking one. 

I felt like doing just these three, but if you want to add in Next Gen or OS into your extended answer, feel free.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 15 minutes ago at 03:46
Hi,

Babylon 5 had some nice things, but totally bad "directors" for so many episodes, to the point of it giving us several different versions of the same character ... and worse of all, was the horrible misuse of the music that was written by Christopher Franke. For 10 years he put together a magnificent amount of stuff for that show, and it was never really taken advantage of, and I think that it was the American Producers that did not want music to upstage the rest of the show ... to be honest with you, I never thought that Vangelis, or Ryuichi Sakamoto did better with their music than the actual movies they were a part of ... so I, personally, think that the producers of the show were the idiots that didn't think music was important to the show at all, and likely, were paying Christopher Franke a bit more than any jingle idiot out there!

There was one show, and I have no idea what it was called, where the folks had to go back in time 5 years to try and stop something or other from hurting the planet. I remember some parts of that show well,  but don't remember its name, and it seems to have vanished from the stratospheres of the sci-fi world, that has some nice things, but also a lot of junk, even if one of them had a lot of funny stuff .... only for two of their members to be taken to the Stargate series, and it quickly helped kill it faster!


Edited by moshkito - 12 hours 13 minutes ago at 03:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heart of the Matter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 7 minutes ago at 04:54
Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9

Also, I have a fond memory of Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5

Edited by Heart of the Matter - 10 hours 45 minutes ago at 05:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 55 minutes ago at 05:06
I haven't watched any of those.

When it comes to 90's sci-fi shows, there are quite a few Japanese Tokusatsus that aren't very well known outside of Japan (especially in the anglosphere) which I think are absolutely worth watching. Eg. Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain. Yes, those shows were mostly targeted to kids and thus might come off as cheesy to a adult Western viewers, but the cheese is part of the charm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 44 minutes ago at 07:17
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9

Also, I have a fond memory of Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5


Thanks for the reminder about Crusade. I had forgotten that show.

Voyager over DS9....interesting. Better characters or stories?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 42 minutes ago at 07:19
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Babylon 5 had some nice things, but totally bad "directors" for so many episodes, to the point of it giving us several different versions of the same character ... and worse of all, was the horrible misuse of the music that was written by Christopher Franke. For 10 years he put together a magnificent amount of stuff for that show, and it was never really taken advantage of, and I think that it was the American Producers that did not want music to upstage the rest of the show ... to be honest with you, I never thought that Vangelis, or Ryuichi Sakamoto did better with their music than the actual movies they were a part of ... so I, personally, think that the producers of the show were the idiots that didn't think music was important to the show at all, and likely, were paying Christopher Franke a bit more than any jingle idiot out there!

There was one show, and I have no idea what it was called, where the folks had to go back in time 5 years to try and stop something or other from hurting the planet. I remember some parts of that show well,  but don't remember its name, and it seems to have vanished from the stratospheres of the sci-fi world, that has some nice things, but also a lot of junk, even if one of them had a lot of funny stuff .... only for two of their members to be taken to the Stargate series, and it quickly helped kill it faster!


Wasn't aware of this. I'll have to pay more attention to the music on my next re-watch. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 42 minutes ago at 07:19
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9...


The same order for me. I actually never really got into Deep Space Nine. A friend of mine called it Deep Snooze Nine at the time. It may be my least favourite Star Trek series.

For some other 90s sci-fi shows, I liked LEXX (a Canadian/German co-production). It can be very racy and crude. Farscape somewhat reminded me of it.

Before joining this forum, I belonged to a Lexx forum (as FunkET). Of a different kind of sci-fi ilk, I was into The X Files and The (new) Outer Limits in the 90s. And I loved Dennis Potter's Cold Lazarus (a BBC production starring the great Albert Finney).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 25 minutes ago at 07:36
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9

Also, I have a fond memory of Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5


Thanks for the reminder about Crusade. I had forgotten that show.

Voyager over DS9....interesting. Better characters or stories?


Since I voted the same, I will take the time to quickly respond. I prefer the setting, story, premise and characters on the whole (the Neelix and Kes thing in Voyager was a low point, so cringe). Both shows got too soap operay for me in their ways but I really like Voyager. Enterprise I despised when it came out, but it improved for me and the whole thing I grew to like more (really like the Doctor and some very interesting stories and moral dilemmas). The first ST series remains my favourite. I did really like Picard and would love to see a sort of continuation/ spin-off starring Jeri Ryan (7 of 9). I thought she was great in Picard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Heart of the Matter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 38 minutes ago at 08:23
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9

Also, I have a fond memory of Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5


Thanks for the reminder about Crusade. I had forgotten that show.

Voyager over DS9....interesting. Better characters or stories?


Since I voted the same, I will take the time to quickly respond. I prefer the setting, story, premise and characters on the whole (the Neelix and Kes thing in Voyager was a low point, so cringe). Both shows got too soap operay for me in their ways but I really like Voyager. Enterprise I despised when it came out, but it improved for me and the whole thing I grew to like more (really like the Doctor and some very interesting stories and moral dilemmas). The first ST series remains my favourite. I did really like Picard and would love to see a sort of continuation/ spin-off starring Jeri Ryan (7 of 9). I thought she was great in Picard.

I'd say that 7 was the saving grace in ST Picard. To get rid of Kes was the salvation of Voyager. And I think you are going to laugh at me, but the really annoying thing with DS9 was their being static. They didn't even orbit! It took them don't know how many seasons to secure their own ship to move around a bit, and that was only for the needs of war! And too many merchants selling things on the promenade, that too. The promenade itself wasn't good for any story, if you ask me. Thumbs up for O'Brien and Smiley, and Whorf, of course   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 8 minutes ago at 08:53
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Nice! I went with Babylon > Voyager > DS9

Also, I have a fond memory of Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5


Thanks for the reminder about Crusade. I had forgotten that show.

Voyager over DS9....interesting. Better characters or stories?


Since I voted the same, I will take the time to quickly respond. I prefer the setting, story, premise and characters on the whole (the Neelix and Kes thing in Voyager was a low point, so cringe). Both shows got too soap operay for me in their ways but I really like Voyager. Enterprise I despised when it came out, but it improved for me and the whole thing I grew to like more (really like the Doctor and some very interesting stories and moral dilemmas). The first ST series remains my favourite. I did really like Picard and would love to see a sort of continuation/ spin-off starring Jeri Ryan (7 of 9). I thought she was great in Picard.

I'd say that 7 was the saving grace in ST Picard. To get rid of Kes was the salvation of Voyager. And I think you are going to laugh at me, but the really annoying thing with DS9 was their being static. They didn't even orbit! It took them don't know how many seasons to secure their own ship to move around a bit, and that was only for the needs of war! And too many merchants selling things on the promenade, that too. The promenade itself wasn't good for any story, if you ask me. Thumbs up for O'Brien and Smiley, and Whorf, of course   


I know lots of people did not like Kes, but I did. Neelix annoyed me. That said, I do think that 7 of 9 was a great character to bring on. Harry Kim was rather dull, I thought, although not bad.

I agree with you on Deep Space Nine. And the promenade stuff really bored me. And I just don't like Ferengi (one tried to rip me off. ;) . And Captain Sisko's son give Wesley Crusher a strong run for the annoying. Wesley reminds me a bit of the much hated Adric from Peter Davispon's Doctor Who (but unusually I actually quite liked Adric). As for Picard, I found it poignant, sensitive and courageous in how it deals with mortality, The vitality of Jeri Ryan really was needed.

Although it made little sense, had something happened to Deep Space Nine like with Moonbase Alpha in Space 1999 (for those that know it), it would have been more exciting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KorgC3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 55 minutes ago at 09:06
For me it really is between Babylon 5 and DS9. I personally prefer Babylon because I feel that it's a bit more self contained, whereas DS9 certainly (though not insistently) benefits from prior familiarization with TNG.
However, DS9 clearly had the better production and more planned narrative direction right from the get-go, whereas Babylon 5 began with an "okayish" first season, and really exploded in scale with the latter ones. Voyager felt to me more like a complementary piece to DS9. A bonus if you want to get more from the franchise after seeing its top entries.
Granted, if you really want to stretch the line with 90s space operas, you could throw a bunch of Japanese Animes into the mix as-well, and I guess, the early portion of Star Gate would count as-well.
I genuinely feel like the 90s were the best era for space operas on television.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KorgC3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 50 minutes ago at 09:11
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

When it comes to 90's sci-fi shows, there are quite a few Japanese Tokusatsus that aren't very well known outside of Japan (especially in the anglosphere) which I think are absolutely worth watching. Eg. Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain. Yes, those shows were mostly targeted to kids and thus might come off as cheesy to a adult Western viewers, but the cheese is part of the charm.
IMO, the Metal Heroes franchise stands very bold due to their designs and comparatively experimental direction. I think they aged a bit better compared to most of the other Toku stuff from those times, which more often than not tended to rely on the cheese factor.
That said, I'm pretty sure oddly peculiar sequel series like the Heisei Ultraseven were meant for older audiences.

Edited by KorgC3 - 6 hours 48 minutes ago at 09:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 15 minutes ago at 10:46
Originally posted by KorgC3 KorgC3 wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

When it comes to
90's sci-fi shows, there are quite a few Japanese Tokusatsus that aren't
very well known outside of Japan (especially in the anglosphere) which I
think are absolutely worth watching. Eg. Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain.
Yes, those shows were mostly targeted to kids and thus might come off
as cheesy to a adult Western viewers, but the cheese is part of the
charm.

IMO, the Metal Heroes franchise stands very bold due to their designs and comparatively experimental direction. I think they aged a bit better compared to most of the other Toku stuff from those times, which more often than not tended to rely on the cheese factor.
That said, I'm pretty sure oddly peculiar sequel series like the Heisei Ultraseven were meant for older audiences.

I see you're a man of culture as well! I second your take on the Metal Hero series. Its unique designs stood the test of time much more gracefully than the more "out there" vintage Toku, particularly the shows that relied more heavily on Japanese folklore, like Henshin Ninja Arashi or Kaiketsu Lion Maru.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 13 minutes ago at 13:48
Great comments, guys. Great to have discussion about some of my fave series. A couple thoughts.

Deep Snooze Nine. I think I loved DS9 because it was static and less action. That's where I differ from most Sci-Fi and Fantasy fans. I dislike a lot of "action" and battle scenes and wartime conflicts. I enjoy these shows for a look at life in some futuristic place. So I like the boring nature of DS9 because I want the laid-back, everyday life, ho-hum scenes. I enjoy just seeing "life in the space-ship/station" and the normal human interaction in that futuristic place. I love the backgrounds, the quiet personal politics, and getting away from fighting and battle. My favorite shows are the ones that are highly cerebral with very little action/battle/fights.

Not to go off-topic, but I rather enjoyed The Expanse because, even though it had more fighting than I liked, it did show great looking futuristic imagination.

Seven is a great character, and yes Kes is down there with Wesley (and Deanna for me) for bad characters. On the flip side, I like Captain Janeway much more than Picard.  (I'm not a Next Gen fan) Data is really the only character I really enjoy on that show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 42 minutes ago at 14:19
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


Deep Snooze Nine. I think I loved DS9 because it was static and less action. That's where I differ from most Sci-Fi and Fantasy fans. I dislike a lot of "action" and battle scenes and wartime conflicts. I enjoy these shows for a look at life in some futuristic place. So I like the boring nature of DS9 because I want the laid-back, everyday life, ho-hum scenes. I enjoy just seeing "life in the space-ship/station" and the normal human interaction in that futuristic place. I love the backgrounds, the quiet personal politics, and getting away from fighting and battle. My favorite shows are the ones that are highly cerebral with very little action/battle/fights.


This resonates with me a lot. I completely agree, and it is why my favourite Arthur C Clarke novel was Rendevous With Rama, and why I loved the fourth Dune novel of all the series the best, precisely because of the pace and human interactions. The best sci-fi deals with humans, and how they adapt to situations, just as the finest histories do the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 32 minutes ago at 14:29
Deep Space Nine> Voyager> Babylon 5. I thought both DS9 and Voyager improved over the course of their run, but found Babylon 5's last season kind of weak. Having said that, I enjoyed all three very much.

Some others I enjoyed from that decade are Farscape, Stargate SG-1, The X-Files, and The Outer Limits (which was the most inconsistent of these, but occasionally had some good episodes).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 18 minutes ago at 14:43
I'm a trekker, but DS9 is the worst spin-off ever. I've never seen Babylon 5, so the first in the list is my choice. It deserves at least 7 votes over 9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 15 minutes ago at 14:46
Anyway, my favorite Star Trek spin off is Enterprise. The absolute worst  is Strange New Worlds. Please send Pike to a barber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 50 minutes ago at 15:11
By the way, I am not really an action fan, and often go with more arthouse fare. Like with music, I do like atmosphere often and a quirkiness. I love 2001: A Space Odyssey but am not into Star Wars. Under the Skin is one of my favourite more modern films that deals with aliens. Westworld, the HBO show, has plenty of action, but it is the character and atmosphere that makes that show for me. Another quite modern fave show of mine in the sci-fi vein is Utopia (not the US remake but the original British one).

My favourite Captain is the original Pike ho they massacred with Strange New Worlds. Yep, I'd put that as worst too. And I love the pilot for Star Trek, later turned into The Cage.

In the 90s I actually was not really into sci-fi and was much more about international cinema drama. I got back into sci-fi in the 2000s, starting as a nostalgia thing.

I don;t much like very fast-moving shows generally, I like to have time to reflect and just take in the scenery. The dead time can really help with a show or movie, foir instance with Wim Wenders Paris, Texas. A reason why I love Twin Peaks: The Return is how it can just slow down, which would test the patience of many.

Edited by Logan - 45 minutes ago at 15:16
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