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The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle
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Jacob Schoolcraft View Drop Down
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Points: 1158 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2024 at 18:49
So...it wasnt in the German musicians best interest to sing in their own language? Huh? Why? Because of success?

I found a lot of singing in the 70s to be questionable..but I assume that wasn't important to anyone of consequence.

I thought Robert Plant was a lousy singer and I found it repulsive that a record executive or a manager would want you to sing like him.

The music business in America was all about being commercial and or having a pretty face. Chi Coltrane had a pretty face and she turned her back on their demands. Years later she became a fan of Dream Theater 😃

In America the music business is a joke.
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

the interesting thing is that the italian counterculture movement of the 1970s was largely external to the communist party, which had to maintain constitutional legality, in fact the armed struggle arose from elements that challenged the communist party for having lost its revolutionary drive. many left-wing writers and intellectuals were expelled from the communist party, some of whom founded movements and newspapers, the most famous of which is Il MANIFESTO, which is still in existence.

Yes, I think, it was quite typical that The New Left was organized besides the traditional left-wing parties. For instance in Denmark, it was not least in form of a new party, Venstresocialisterne (Leftsocialists), which was formed by some former, prominent members of the more traditional Socialistisk Folkeparti (Socialist People Party). Venstresocialisterne was much more radical than SF, and revolutionary, while SF's socialism strategy was based on reforms. Btw, I became myself a member of Venstresocialisterne in early '80s.
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Points: 15397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2024 at 14:18
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Regarding the two strands of the counterculture, the hippy and the communist, it must be said that in Italy the 1977 movement, at the height of the armed struggle, included both instances. For example, Bologna's Mao-dadaist Radio, a radio station of the communist and autonomous left, which was inspired by the Marxist philosopher Tony Negri (who then went to live in France, he died recently),  I was saying: the radio of the communist movement in Bologna was called Radio Alice, because it was inspired by the Jefferson Airplane song: in short, communism and psychedelia.

I reckon that not so few leftists were influenced by the hippies, but basically, the hippies and the political left-wing had rather different strategies for new society / better world. The hippies saw the changes not least to happen within the mind of individuals, or at most creating a counter-society in the midst of the current system, for instance in form of independent small communities like Christiania - even I think, that was as far as it could get; while for the left-wing, it was definitely about changing the organization of the whole society and especially the economic system.


Edited by David_D - December 20 2024 at 12:18
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Points: 65442 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2024 at 16:19
Great time on the U.S. West coast.   Somehow everyone assumed it would remain that way forevermore--   rock, drugs, culture, and fun in the sun.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 6036 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2024 at 10:46
In 1972, when anarchists in Italy were still being blamed for the Milan bombing in 1969 (but it was a fascist bomb!), and when Commissioner Calabresi (who had arrested two of them, completely innocent), was killed by some armed militants, Francesco Guccini published this song that recalls a true story: an anarchist train driver hurling a locomotive at a train for rich people in the early 20th century. Crowds of left-wing demonstrators sing the song in chorus with clenched fists, shouting 

TRIUMPH THE PROLETARY JUSTICE!
These lyrics became a cult.


THE LOCOMOTIVE

I don't know what face he had, not even what his name was,
with what voice he spoke, with what voice he sang,
how old he was then, what colour his hair was,
but in my imagination I have the image of him:
heroes are all young and handsome,
heroes are all young and handsome
heroes are all young and handsome...

But I know the time of events, what his trade was:
the early years of the century, engineer, railwayman,
the days when the holy war of the beggars was beginning
the train also seemed a myth of progress
launched over the continents,
hurled over the continents,
hurled over the continents...

And the locomotive seemed to be a strange monster
that man mastered with thought and hand:
roaring it left behind distances that seemed endless,
it seemed to have within it a tremendous power,
the same force as dynamite,
the same force as dynamite,
the same force as dynamite...

But another great force was then spreading its wings,
But another great force was then spreading its wings,
words that said ‘all men are equal’
And against kings and tyrants burst in the street
the proletarian bomb and lit up the air
the torch of anarchy,
the torch of anarchy,
the torch of anarchy!

A train every day passed through its station,
a luxury train, a distant destination:
he saw revered people, he thought of those velvets, the golds,
thought of the meagre day of its people around,
thought a train full of gentlemen,
thought a train full of gentlemen,
he thought of a train full of gentlemen...

I don't know what happened, why he made the decision,
perhaps an ancient rage, nameless generations
that screamed revenge, blinded his heart:
he forgot pity, he forgot his goodness,
his bomb his steam engine,
his bomb his steam engine,
his bomb his steam engine....

And on the track stood the locomotive,
the pulsing machine seemed to be a living thing,
it looked like a young colt that as soon as it released the brake
biting the rail with muscles of steel,
with blind force of flash,
with blind force of flash,
with the blind force of a flash...

And one day like the others, but perhaps with more rage in his body
he thought he had a way to right some wrong.
He climbed onto the sleeping monster, tried to push away his fear
and before he thought about what he was going to do,
the monster devoured the plain,
the monster devoured the plain,
the monster devoured the plain...

The other train ran unaware and almost in no hurry,
no one imagined they were heading for revenge,
but at the Bologna station the news came in a flash:
‘emergency news, act urgently,
a madman has thrown himself against the train,
a madman has thrown himself against the train,
a madman has thrown himself against the train...’

But meanwhile it runs, runs, runs the locomotive
and hisses steam and seems almost a living thing
And seems to say to the bent peasants the whistle that spreads through the air:
‘Brother, dont fear, I run to my duty!
Let proletarian justice triumph!
Let proletarian justice triumph!
Let Proletarian justice triumph!’

And in the meantime he runs and runs and runs
And he runs and runs and runs towards death
And nothing now can hold back the immense destructive force,
It waits only for the crash and then for the mantle
Of the great comforter
Of the great comforter
of the great comforter...

History tells us how the race ended
The locomotive diverted along a dead line...
With its last animal cry the car erupted lapilli and lava,
exploded against the sky, then the smoke scattered the veil:
they picked him up who was still breathing,
they picked him up who was still breathing,
they gathered him who was still breathing....

But we like to think of him still behind the engine
as he runs the steam engine away
And that one day more news will reach us
of a locomotive, like a living thing,
bombarded against injustice,
bombarded with injustice,
bombarded with injustice!


Live version: (on the bass: Ares Tavolazzi, Area's bassist)



Edited by jamesbaldwin - December 22 2024 at 17:01
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2024 at 06:12

A very fine song reflecting The New Left was by the African

Osibisa - "Think about the People", on their debut album (1971), and an excerpt of the lyrics says:

Now stop for a moment
Think about the world
Think about the people
Think about their lives
Stop for a moment
Think about the system
Think about your children
Think about the whole wide world!

Think about deception
Think about pollution
Think about radiation
Think about destruction
Think about revolution
Think about a revelation
Think about a solution
Or think about a whole wide world!

RIGHT NOW!
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Points: 15397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2024 at 06:35

Probably the largest hippie community was established in Haight-Ashbury, San Francisco, and is by Wikipedia described like this:

"Some of the earliest San Francisco hippies were former students at San Francisco State College[61] who became intrigued by the developing psychedelic hippie music scene.[52] These students joined the bands they loved, living communally in the large, inexpensive Victorian apartments in the Haight-Ashbury.[62] Young Americans around the country began moving to San Francisco, and by June 1966, around 15,000 hippies had moved into the Haight.[63] The Charlatans, Jefferson Airplane, Big Brother and the Holding Company, and the Grateful Dead all moved to San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury neighborhood during this period. Activity centered on the Diggers, a guerrilla street theatre group that combined spontaneous street theatre, anarchistic action, and art happenings in their agenda to create a "free city". By late 1966, the Diggers opened free stores which simply gave away their stock, provided free food, distributed free drugs, gave away money, organized free music concerts, and performed works of political art."

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie#1958%E2%80%931967:_Early_hippies )


Edited by David_D - December 24 2024 at 18:44
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Just listened to Never Mind the Bollocks...., really great album and probably the most rebellious music ever made, and certainly not to forget the punks when talking about the '70s counterculture. 
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Points: 6036 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2025 at 16:45
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Just listened to Never Mind the Bollocks...., really great album and probably the most rebellious music ever made, and certainly not to forget the punks when talking about the '70s counterculture. 

In Italy there wasnt punk movement... in 1976 there was the red terrorism on the streets...

Love and bombs, orgasm and armed struggle...
dream realised and machine-gun


WHO SAID IT'S NOT THERE? (1976)


It is in the bottom of your eyes 
on the tip of your lips 
it lies in the awakened body 
in the end of sin 
in the curve of your hips 
in the warmth of your breasts 
in the depths of your belly
in the waiting for the morning.

It lies in the dream realised 
It lies in the polished machine gun
in the joy in the rage 
in the destruction of the cage

in the death of the school 
in the refusal of work 
in the deserted factory 
in the house without a door 
It lies in the imagination 
in the music on the grass 
It lies in the provocation 
in the work of the mole 
in the history of the future 
in the present without history 
in the moments of drunkenness 
in the moments of memory 

It lies in the blackness of the skin 
in the collective feast 
It lies in taking the goods 
in the moments of memory 
the present without history 
in the moments of drunkenness 
in the instants of memory 
It lies in the blackness of the skin 
in the collective feast 
it lies in taking the goods 
it lies in taking the hand 
in pulling the cobblestones 
in the fire of Milan 
in the bars on the fascists 
in the stones on the jeeps 
It lies in the dreams of the hooligans 
and in the games of children 
in the knowing of the body 
in the orgasm of the mind 
in the most total desire 
in the transparent discourse 
but who said it's not there but who said it's not there? 
it's in the depths of your eyes on the tip of your lips it's in the polished machine gun in the end of the State it's there, it's there but who said it's not there?




Edited by jamesbaldwin - January 09 2025 at 16:49
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

In Italy there wasnt punk movement... in 1976 there was the red terrorism on the streets...

There were some reasons for the red terrorism, both in Italy and Germany, but it was a terrible thing also from the perspective of fight for socialism or communism.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

In Italy there wasnt punk movement... in 1976 there was the red terrorism on the streets...

There were some reasons for the red terrorism, both in Italy and Germany, but it was a terrible thing also from the perspective of fight for socialism or communism.



In the beginning, i.e. after 1968, armed formations were inspired by the Bolshevik revolution, they did not see themselves as terrorists but as revolutionaries, and they arose in the factories of the north, especially in my city, Milan (city of Pfm and Area).

Then, over time, they turned from would-be revolutionaries into terrorists, but the state also practised terrorism in its own way, with the secret services placing bombs together with fascist exponents.

The song I put above, which few people know today, became the symbol of the 1977 Movement that combined free love, feminism, revolution and armed struggle, in other words public and private spheres, and the lyrics are really representative of what was happening in Italy, I don't think it is easy to find similar lyrics in European or American rock music.
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Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

So...it wasnt in the German musicians best interest to sing in their own language? Huh? Why? Because of success?
...
 
Hi,

I think that the new music (away from the schlagger) was not going to be released in Germany by anyone, thus the only options would be England/America, and France for concerts and some sales. Since England/America were huge in terms of sales, it was a no brainer to make sure they could be heard and understood to a point.

The commercial thing in America is a BAD joke! But it's real, and very sad, and has been worse since the Great American Radio Rape, when all the FM stations in America were bought by 1980, through commercial interests that turned all the stations to "classic rock" ... and they are ALL OF THEM still there doing it, and no one gives a damn, because the corporate accounts keeps the money going around and we still buy Pepsi and Coke and ...

The "revolution" in America, never ended, but it was closed down, and gunned down ... and in some cases, doped down ... to kill it even more ... even today, in 2025, there are people putting down the 60's and 70's, and all that is a residue from the bad publicity. 

The only option at the time, was to turn things to the music, and the art music that became progressive, was one way out, but all of it, became more commercial once the FM stations were no longer there for the music. 

The sad thing is that it killed a lot of great music, and we're still discovering things these days, which should make you and I ask ... what happened? The media decided that Neil Young was a jerk, when the media was the problem! His heart was in the right place, but there weren't enough men to stand up for the art and the real feeling in our hearts ... that died away one day ... and the media blamed the students!


Edited by moshkito - January 09 2025 at 19:04
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Just listened to Never Mind the Bollocks...., really great album and probably the most rebellious music ever made, and certainly not to forget the punks when talking about the '70s counterculture. 

Sex Pistols - "God Save the Queen"   (excerpt)

God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
A potential H bomb
God save the queen
She's not a human being
and There's no future
And England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future
No future
No future for you
(from the album Never Mind the Bollocks.... (1977))


Edited by David_D - 10 hours 39 minutes ago at 04:20
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