Does prog make you smart? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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aqualung28 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 03 2004
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Points: 916

Posted: January 10 2005 at 01:20

well its been moved to Discussions not Related to music for good reason

"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart

the musical box View Drop Down

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Joined: November 01 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 436

Posted: January 10 2005 at 01:23

its been moved about 5 times in the last hour!!

something pretentious

aqualung28 View Drop Down

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Joined: December 03 2004
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Points: 916

Posted: January 10 2005 at 01:24

Has it?

"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart

the musical box View Drop Down

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Posted: January 10 2005 at 01:25

indeed it has

something pretentious

goose

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Joined: June 20 2004
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Posted: January 10 2005 at 03:48

ivan_2068 wrote:

Matt, Rap is a genre based in a couple of chords repeated 100 times with a guy speaking (Yes I don't consider that singing) fast. The lyrics may be intelligent (even when I haven't heard many of this kind) but it's not music. It's almost as reading with a musical backup, in this case absolutely repetitive and lack of talent.

Firstly, nowhere is it written that the backing must be repetitive. Admittedly, it usually is, but likewise (I should think) the majority of rock music is simplistic and repetitive (ergo, every rock band (including prog) must be without value?)

Secondly, why does music have to have melodies? Drum solos (usually) have no melodies, after all. And most of the time they're longer than rap songs LOL

goose

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 4097

Posted: January 10 2005 at 03:52

ivan_2068 wrote:

I never said they are not working, I'm sure N'Sync and Backstreet boys worked very hard, but this DJ's are not creating anything new, not a single chord or even a note.

Some hip-hop groups use live instrumentation. And some composers have almost entirely used other people's work. I can't remember the name, but I listened to a piece a few months ago, composed in the early part of last century (I think) which quoted piece after piece with a solo voice over the top. Plus, didn't Zappa quote Stravinsky and Mozart in his pieces?

ivan_2068 wrote:

Probably, even when I didn't had the chance to listen them, but you should accept this intelligent rap may represent 1 or 2% of the genre.

And much more than 2% of rock is intelligent?

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: January 10 2005 at 11:35

Sorry Goose, but isn't one of the main characteristics of Progressive Rock not being repetetitive, but full of constant changes and odd timmings?

Music needs melody, it's a combination of rhythm and melody according to musical cannons.

Please, don't use drum solos, it's absurd, there are one or two drum solos in each concert and are only a small part of the music. Most of the rock and Prog concerts and albums have one or two drum solos in the middle or the end of a determined track. Don't compare it with rap, where melody almost doesn't exist.

Goose, Zappa Yes, ELP, Wakeman quote famous composers, but again as a small part of a composition by them, theydon't pass all concert playing other people's music, maybe except albums like Pictures at an Exhibition, but in that case is a new arrangement and it's only one album from the whole ELP catalogue.

I used the word intelligent Rap asa rhetorical figure refering to those bands that some people here mention as good music but I haven't heard yet as most of the people in this forum. And yes, I can mention at least 100 good rock bands well known by everyone here, but I doubt anybody can mention 10 good rap bands barely known by 10% of the people here.

Iván

sigod

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Joined: September 17 2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2779

Posted: January 10 2005 at 11:53

Would a Prog/Rap crossover look like this then?

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill

charliefreakz View Drop Down

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Joined: October 26 2004
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Points: 35

Posted: January 10 2005 at 12:23

Christ! Threads like these depress me. I'm not a rap fan, but
each to their own. This is exactly the sort of thread that plays
straight into the hands of those who think that all prog-rock fans
are uppity little snobs. You are becoming the cliché.

oliverstoned View Drop Down

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Posted: January 10 2005 at 12:27

Yes, and i'd like to add that "Indifference is the greatest contempt!"

goose

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Joined: June 20 2004
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Points: 4097

Posted: January 10 2005 at 12:37

ivan_2068 wrote:

Sorry Goose, but isn't one of the main characteristics of Progressive Rock not being repetetitive, but full of constant changes and odd timmings?

And the progressive rappers aren't repetitive either! My point was:
While rap in a lot of cases is simple, some isn't.
Likewise:
While rock in a lot of cases is simple, some (prog) isn't.

With regards to sampling other music, I'm not going to argue; you have a fair point in disliking it for that. It doesn't bother me, because I don't bother about how music was created, but about the end result. But there is some original and thought provoking rap around. And re drum solos, while they may only take up a small portion of a concert, most of the time there is no melody whatsoever, wheras in hip-hop songs the backing will generally have a melody.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:10

Please. Prog fans snob, take a visit to public places as rateyourmusic.com and read what people thinks about prog?, you'll find:

Crap
Yes, Who are they?
Not Kool
Boring
Old farts
Artsy fartsy

It's funny when people gives their opinion about rap in progressive forums everybody says they are crap, but now a lot of people says it's great, it's music or even that there exists progressive rap!!!!

All the rap I listened in my life is crap IMO, maybe there's some good rap, but it's very ocult.

I didn'tstarted this but I do believe rap or hip hop have no place in a progressive rock forum.

Iván

Velvetclown View Drop Down

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Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 8548

Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:13

PROUD TO BE A SNOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reed Lover View Drop Down

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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
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Points: 5187

Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:16

Shocktaktix wrote:

Zappa was a square just like you old guyz

see how you are like old grandads, oh music of today it all noise. Not Kool you guyz.

Tails Of Topografic ocean that is one kool album .

dre & eminem rock, the kidz luv them

pioe and sliper bregade here again.

What about a square VC? LOL

Velvetclown View Drop Down

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Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 8548

Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:21

Does LEICESTER SQUARE count ??? I visited in August 2004

Bilden “http://www.macs.unisa.edu.au/lisathurston/europe03/london/images/172%20Leicester%20Square.jpg” kan inte visas, då den innehåller fel.

Velvetclown View Drop Down

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Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:23

Bilden “http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dmc0116l.jpg” kan inte visas, då den innehåller fel.

Reed Lover View Drop Down

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Joined: July 16 2004
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Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:26

I've heard of Court Jester and Village Idiot but never.................

LOL

Velvetclown View Drop Down

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Points: 8548

Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:34

Looks like a Jester´s Village

Reed Lover View Drop Down

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Joined: July 16 2004
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Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:38

CLOWN TOWN:

Velvetclown View Drop Down

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Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 8548

Posted: January 10 2005 at 13:45

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SAFE CURSING !!!!

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