Krautrock '70's: your favourite bands/authors? |
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jamesbaldwin
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Posted: November 05 2024 at 15:50 |
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Choose your three favourite bands or authors - and please write your fave albums of your choices.
BUT If you can, as third choose the most underrated band/author (in your opinion). |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Logan
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I love music by all almost all of these. I went with Can and Dom but could have gone with any number of others. As my third, the underrated choice, meaning held in too low esteem (add my imo to the following), I went with Brave New World. The reason being that while the epic "The End" is the highlight of its album Impressions on Reading Aldous Huxley, I have come across others who consider that to be the only thing of note and significant worth on it. "The End" is fantastic, but I love the whole album. Also about "The End" I have heard someone express that they're only interested in The Doors' "The End" and as for Brave New World, someone wanted it to be about Iron Maiden instead.
Edited by Logan - November 05 2024 at 16:02 |
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Hrychu
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Voted for Neu! Mostly because it's one of the very few "original" Krautrock formations that did not have cringeworthy lyrics :v
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Manuel
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Many great bands/artists here. I voted for Amon Duul II, but I would be happy if any of them wins.
Edited by Manuel - November 05 2024 at 21:52 |
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mellotronwave
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Voted
Neu ! AR & Machines Cluster |
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verslibre
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Ashra (Ash Ra Tempel)
Manuel Gottsching Most underrated: Brainticket |
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progaardvark
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Can, Amon Düül II, and Faust. Corresponding favorite albums would be Tago Mago, Wolf City, and Faust IV. The contents of this post are xanthan gum-free.
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Psychedelic Paul
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1971: Ash Ra Tempel - Ash Ra Tempel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxUycrXb6eQ 1972: Ash Ra Tempel - Schwingungen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpHdPdxNxU4 1973: Ash Ra Tempel - Join Inn - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fqpc64kDv0 1973: Ash Ra Tempel - Starring Rosi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1da0hk623F4 1973: Ash Ra Tempel & Timothy Leary - Seven Up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjMwy67lFQg 1975: Ash Ra Tempel - Le Berceau de Cristal (soundtrack) - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVPGzOHIIgz_OcHc7jTGb3J9R4S1728Rz 2000: Ash Ra Tempel - Friendship (with Klaus Schulze) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-UvObqiyVg 1977: Ashra - New Age of Earth - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n_kR6-2IslcPoE-8P5hDGtScWiNl2SqZQ 1978: Ashra - Blackouts - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kAVcQrpCloD_WFLvbJp6wcppj2HrRiVE4 1979: Ashra - Correlations - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lMNlIxnaYfI_F0cEEPPCcwlVs8758qmEY 1980: Ashra - Belle Alliance - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ktvG-bZHM7nOf6COTGU5krvEoxTiCFO74 1989: Ashra - Walkin' the Desert - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdRm1CmQYIk 1991: Ashra - Tropical Heat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyAvO_Mp510 1997: Ashra - Sauce Hollandaise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbP22KsGqjU 1975: Manuel Göttsching - Inventions for Electric Guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khejrbgdc4w 1984: Manuel Göttsching - E2-E4 - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lohl8fZZ8NRYc_VMA8x2w1ydzqBrpnVso 1991: Manuel Göttsching - Dream and Desire - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF7JDLIauKE&t=1206s 1995: Manuel Göttsching & Michael Hoenig - Early Water - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdEXZWqrHPE&t=1618s 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJD8tu7kuTE 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svyTsgX_4r8&t=2553s 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDwuMDATmac 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwEbc5-sxuY 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCsQs7B19zk 1996: Manuel Göttsching - The Private Tapes, Vol. 6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwL_AQWJew 2005: Manuel Göttsching - Die Mulde - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS7HrQh_gCQ&t=2489s 2006: Manuel Göttsching - Joaquin Joe Claussell Meets Manuel Gottsching 2007: Manuel Göttsching - Live at Mount Fiji |
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David_D
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What I can tell here is that I'm fond / very fond of these albums: Can - Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi, Future Days Amon Düül II - Yeti, Wolf City Ash Ra Tempel - s/t Faust - IV Neu! - s/t Gila - s/t Agitation Free - Malesch Guru Guru - Hinter |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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moshkito
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Hi,
Glad to see the appreciation for AD2 and Can ... they deserve the credit and then some ... although I would not leave behind that group of folks that ended up making Michael Rother and some others the real heart and soul of what became "krautrock" ... catch the show for Jaki Liebezeit and you will see "krautrock" come alive when Michael Rother joins them for an incredible piece that even Damo was superlative. About the lyrics ... kinda sad to see that written about the lyrics ... if we take the anti-west attitude that Holger Czukay mentioned many times, you would think that the lyrics would also be done up likewise, thus, them not "making sense" is an important part of the music and scene, so we don't get attached to some kind of idea or symbology about anything ... and this is important, though we have a tendency to think that "meaning" is important ... and quite often, in terms of the arts ... IT IS NOT! ... as it tends to take apart the actual event/experience for the artist or the piece. It's like folks thinking they can figure out Jon Anderson, and he jokes, that actually it was about his breakfast ... !!! Which makes more sense than not!!! (Good thing that the poster has never read, or heard one of Peter Handke's plays at the time !!! His notion would be destroyed senselessly!) ( ... ohh and that Damo ... inventing lyrics and sounds ... !!!) Lyrics, have become the lazy way in rock music ... by supposedly telling you what the song is about ... you know what is weird is that for nearly 500 plus years, lyrics have not been the foreward or forerunner of most music, but the Internet audience complaining about it ... is ... I guess a comment about not appreciating the music, because you gotta be told what it is about? Krazy!!! However the lyrics thing died out around 1974 or so, and if we take AD2 as an example, after "Apocalyptic Bore" ... it literally said ... it didn't matter any more ... it was OK ... but we remember the ending guitar/violin duet ... but hate to show it, because the lyrics and the song are way out there! And if you want meaning ... there is no better literature than that in one song! .... (until you go to figure out why the Mona Lisa has a bird brain!!!) (... and the kids had taken all the skybites ... ) Side Note: Remember that almost all folks in the early "krautrock" days, were sons and daughters of WW2 citizens, and many of them had to be re-used for educational purposes because the teaching/learning element of things was just about wiped out ... (Edgar Froese mentions it in a special) ... and you know that since the 1930's or so, Germany was under a system that "told" folks what to believe and do ... meaning that if there were to be lyrics, they would be supporting the military ideals. Thus, the new "scene" all of a sudden, taking on a counter idea to "meaning" makes a lot of sense ... something that we have a hard time with, but in my book, and history (parents involved in WW2 in Portugal) dealing with ... Both my parents never said a thing, good or bad, likely because they were threatened by the government ... and likely more than once ... so, all of a sudden, odd lyrics with "no meaning" is the right thing to do ... although not many other folks in Europe took up the "no meaning" as well as the early "krautrock" did, and then folks like Samuel Beckett with his famous play, which suggests there were STILL some things to worry about.
Edited by moshkito - November 06 2024 at 12:25 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Olape
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 28 2013 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 2169 |
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My thoughts too: Can - Ege Bamyasi ADII - Wolf City Agitation Free - Malesch Other favs not on the list: Frumpy, Orange Peel and Kraan. Edited by Olape - November 06 2024 at 09:38 |
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Octopus II
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Can
Amon Duul II Neu! |
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dr wu23
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Amon Duul 2
Agitation Free Brainticket (not sure if they are underated but I enjoy their first 3 lps)
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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David_D
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Voted only though for Agitation Free, and Gila whose debut I may find underrated in general, even it's quite high-rated on PA.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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jamesbaldwin
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I'm not a an expert of krautrock. My opinion about the bands I know isnt definitive, I should relisten to them in a more scientific way. I just know Can, Faust, Ash Ra Tempel, Neu!, Popol Vuh, Amon Duull I and II, Cluster, Guru Guru. Voted for Faust (my fave), Popol Vuh and Amon Duul II. In my opinion Faust are underrated. I've done this poll to study the situation and find some band to discover.
Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 06 2024 at 15:59 |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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David_D
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Arts and science are not an easy combination, even I won't say that it's all subjective, or that science is objective for that sake. Edited by David_D - November 06 2024 at 17:44 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Mellotron Storm
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Voted Amon Duul II, Gila and Agitation Free. With those three bands I have favourite pairs. I've just changed my mind too many times, so I'm listing two. Yeti and Tanz Der Lemminge, Malesche and 2, Free electric Sound and Night Works. Although with Agitation Free I'm so into their live stuff as well.
Personally for me the most underrated is Eiliff. It wasn't until I heard their archival live stuff that they clicked, and I find those far superior to their studio albums. I'm more into the heavy psychedelic aspect of Krautrock but love how trippy and uplifting Agitation Free is. Can deserves a mention of course along with Ash Ra Tempel but loads of great bands here. Lastly Alcatraz has this random Jazz/Fusion tune on that album that I'm surprised NUCLEUS didn't sue them over. Same song pretty much, especially the main melody. |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17524 |
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Hi, Interesting ... considering that the scene was not defined in a scientific way at all, makes the choice a bit off key for me. The early days of "krautrock" was about exploration and creativity, and there really was not a lot of "scientific" ideas in it at all ... see the Damo Suzuki special to get a better idea, because no one reflected the life of "krautrock" more, and better, than he did, and he took it with him ... no one could take it away from him. But the thing to remember is that this was not a music scene alone, but also a film and literature scene, although in a place like this, many folks will gladly ignore all that, and not believe it. One example ... see if you can find a difference between Damo and Klaus Kinski ... you can see KK in Werner Herzog's special ... and how crazy he could be when he just went out in his character. It's something that acting in theater and film love to see, but they dislike it, because it tears away at all its foundations in Stanislavski ... as a method for acting, which is still used these days in many colleges and universities ... I should say "mis-use" since these institutions are more into TV acting than they are into the discipline itself. Kinda weird to see you state that "listen in a more scientific way" ... for something that is totally against the "science" of any of the arts ... I guess that anyone involved was stupid, and even Peter Handke's word plays were just a bunch of idiocies ... and all that improvisation was just stupidity and lack of knowledge about music ... like there was nothing else existent beyond the staff and notes! Just such a scary thought!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17524 |
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Hi, Here we go, written just for you ... a bit more about the non-scientific style of "krautrock" and why it should not be listened to as you suggest. CAN - Tago Mago, per Holger was culled from at least 20 hours of material and most of it was completely haphazard and not predefined. This is quite clear in the 2 very long pieces. FAUST - Probably less clear, but all the way up to the 3rd or 4th albums, you can easily hear the mere turning of the knob on the synth to get an effect. It was experimental to the last second, and in one segment in a film about Krautrock, one of the guys goes on about playing sticks on a cement drum and other things ... whatever was around, fit the bill! ASH RA TEMPEL - Manuel G said many times that he was much more of a live player than he was a studio player. The early days had a few improvisations, that were nice and gave him a cool background, which we saw clearly all the way to "New Age of Earth" ... after that a lot of his stuff is just him and a synth or two, usually live, and while there were some nifty and far out pieces, in many ways they do not really come close to the beauty and touch of the earlier stuff. NEU - Not much needed to be said here, but other than the drum beat, it was wide open. POPOL VUH - First album was all synth ... which Florian promptly dropped and went acoustic. I think he was more interested in the vocal side of it all and his albums seem to go that way ... but the work was meditative, spiritual and likely ... experimental to a point ... not sure it was all free form, specially further in with a guitar player. The vocals never felt "free", but another instrument in the whole thing. AMON DUUL 1 - Not a band at all ... the recordings are, more than likely just a bunch of Saturday Night music-in for everyone and anything can be done and was done ... aside from very obvious studio trickery (the scratch that breaks up the flow -- even FZ did that, and so did Monty Python!). But listen to it ... and you will find moments that ended up in the first 3 albums by AD2. All free form as it wasn't about music ... it was about getting stoned, drunk, and just flying along with whatever before jumping on the women for sex ... something that AD2 make sure to pee on in their first album ... which folks still think is something else, other than the very obvious "party" ... that is getting weird as the time continues and the dope gets to come on stronger. Amon DUUL 2 - Some folks that had been inside the events on AD1, ended up here and show up several times all the way to WOLF CITY, when the band (it seems) cut down the extra folks and in many ways lost its "freedom", though they were still really good with outstanding pieces. All the way to VIVE LA TRANCE, this band was the king and queen of all lyrics with some amazing images handled beautifully, including the use of sound effects ... and then if it is not enough, their free form (MM soundtrack on DOTL), is one of the best improvisations EVER done on record ... it's beauty and touch, specially Lothar Meid, is incredible and sadly not "listenable" (per PA user a while back!!!), because it is not a song and has no lyrics! The band was also very with it in many ways ... "Apocaliptyc Bore" is a serious attack on what went wrong with all the dope ... kids had taken all the skybites ... and that caused them all to leave and disappear ... and all the band can say is ... it's OK ... it wasn't ... left a massive hole behind it all! The other piece in the same album, is "Mozambique" that has been banned from the political/war threads on PA by one person ... I'm not sure he would ever know what happened to so many blacks (not to mention slavery!!!), in that country and others in Africa. Best never to look at it, because it is not only ugly, it is bloody! Makes this band way up and above a lot others, however, sadly it wasn't until #NADA MOONSHINE NUMBER that the band would put together another strong and powerful album, and go out with a huge finger ... "divine slime" ... and we just ignore it all! The irony is incredible and astounding! CLUSTER - Fits in with the NEU folks more or less ... generally instrumental stuff based on the beat. Very nice though, and it was a good background for a lot of "krautrock", specially the vein that Damo Suzuki went on to do for a long time. GURU GURU - A special band, however, I should probably say ... a special drummer, because the band could not keep itself together and had so many incarnations, but I don't think that Mani gave a damn. He could drum with them all and the sky and the moon, naked or not! The first three albums (and one live one) were incredibly strong with Ax Gernrich and an incredible fire storm of guitar gymnastics in sound and noise ... to create a very neat and far out bunch of pieces. Several of them are still in GG's menu when they can play these days, Mani's health not with standing. After that the 4th album had a John McLaughlin styled guitarist and the album had a few really far out pieces, that were not always a part of the GG's listings in the live albums ... sadly because both long pieces in that album are outstanding! After that, there is always something nice about it, but the band (in my ear) had become a KRAAN sister band, and while there were nice things, it was not anywhere near the importance and bauty of their early stuff ... I guess that Mani not having fun with getting nekkid all the time anywhere, probably took its toll once he got married? Still a lot of nice stuff, but not as great and far out as the early material some of which I like to say that this was the best Jimi Hendrix that no one on PA will ever hear!
Edited by moshkito - November 07 2024 at 07:42 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5988 |
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Any evaluation is subjective, like the judgement of music or film critics. But a true critic makes judgements according to precise, recognisable criteria, with a certain method. In fact, serious critics, once you get to know them, study them, give judgements that at some point you can understand and even predict. Listening ‘scientifically’ to an album means this to me. And if I want to make judgements, make a ranking, first of all it means for example listening to each album 5 or 6 times carefully, reading the lyrics well, before comparing it with others. |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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