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The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

English prog was born as a neutral movement in relation to politics, it was not born out of youth protests, out of the hangouts of political militants. This means that English prog is not politically oriented. (But there may be some political prog songs).

Again, it's a question of the used definition of "the political", but anyway, in my opinion and as for instance Edward Macan more or less documents it in his Rocking the Classics, English Prog was born very much out of the '60s counterculture movement and was in many ways in opposition to the mainstream culture and the social order.


Edited by David_D - 10 hours 34 minutes ago at 05:38
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Quote I can add that in Italy, where rock tradition was weak, there was, instead a rich tradition of classic music and prog rock was associated to the cultured musician of classic music.
It's funny that even though Germany also had a rich classical tradition (W.A. Mozart, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe et al.), the prog rock bands ditched all this shіt, and instead chose to poorly disguise themselves as Englishmen (eg. Triumvirat, Sirius, Tritonus...). xD In hindsight, I find it quite laughable.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

English prog was born as a neutral movement in relation to politics, it was not born out of youth protests, out of the hangouts of political militants. This means that English prog is not politically oriented. (But there may be some political prog songs).

Again, it's a question of the used definition of "the political", but anyway, in my opinion and as for instance Edward Macan more or less documents it in his Rocking the Classics, English Prog was born very much out of the '60s counterculture movement and was in many ways in opposition to the mainstream culture and the social order.

I havent read Rocking The Classics.
But we must distinguish politics from custom: even rock and roll (Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry and JerrY Lee Lewis) was in opposition to the mainstream culture, but it was essentially a phenomenon of custom, without political connotations.

In Italy music had political connotations, for example many artists and groups were contested from the public for political reasons. This phenomenon was not at all happened in the UK. 

In Italy, Le Orme were contested for the song "Gioco di bimba" (and for other songs) and Area contested Pfm for "Dolcissima Maria": they were too sentimental, sappy songs - not fit as leftish song.
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote I can add that in Italy, where rock tradition was weak, there was, instead a rich tradition of classic music and prog rock was associated to the cultured musician of classic music.
It's funny that even though Germany also had a rich classical tradition (W.A. Mozart, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe et al.), the prog rock bands ditched all this shіt, and instead chose to poorly disguise themselves as Englishmen (eg. Triumvirat, Sirius, Tritonus...). xD In hindsight, I find it quite laughable.
As far as Triumvirat goes, leader Juergen Fritz was an Honours student at the Cologne Conservatory, and was classically trained, and it shows in their music; obviously, they did not throw out the classical tradition, but merged it with rock music; I guess that's why they called it "Classical rock" as well as "Progressive rock". (for example, the very beginning of Triumvirat's debut album is a brilliant transcription of the Mozart overture to the opera "The Abduction Of The Seraglio".)

Edited by presdoug - 8 hours 54 minutes ago at 07:18
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote "Progressive rock in the English-speaking world had no political orientation: it could have functions of social commentary (Jethro Tull and King Crimson) or philosophical (Moody Blues) or existential (VdGG) or spiritual (Yes)
I see this as a good thing. That's what made the English language prog rock equally as emotionally charged as the Italian scene but in the long run, way more timeless.

I'd say that it's the rather strong ideological (broadly defined) engagement of the English Prog that made it such creative, great and "timeless" - and quite the same with the German Krautrock. 


Edited by David_D - 5 hours 19 minutes ago at 10:53
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In 1967 a university student of literature who was reduced from a trip to the US in search of the places Bob Dylan talked about made his first appearance on Italian public TV.
His name was Francesco Guccini and he was already 27 years old.
In those years, public TV only broadcast entertainment programs, with melodic songs in the Sanremo Festival's style, that is, love songs with banal lyrics.
Guccini brought a song called "Auschwitz - Song of the child in the wind", with lyrics that no one would have ever imagined at the time.
It was a great event.


I died with a hundred others, I died as a child,
passed through the chimney and now I'm in the wind....

In Auschwitz there was snow, the smoke rose slowly
In the cold winter day and now I am in the wind, now I am in the wind...

I ask when will man be able to learn
To live without killing and the wind will settle and the wind will settle...




Edited by jamesbaldwin - 3 hours 50 minutes ago at 12:22
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote I can add that in Italy, where rock tradition was weak, there was, instead a rich tradition of classic music and prog rock was associated to the cultured musician of classic music.
It's funny that even though Germany also had a rich classical tradition (W.A. Mozart, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe et al.), the prog rock bands ditched all this shіt, and instead chose to poorly disguise themselves as Englishmen (eg. Triumvirat, Sirius, Tritonus...). xD In hindsight, I find it quite laughable.
As far as Triumvirat goes, leader Juergen Fritz was an Honours student at the Cologne Conservatory, and was classically trained, and it shows in their music; obviously, they did not throw out the classical tradition, but merged it with rock music; I guess that's why they called it "Classical rock" as well as "Progressive rock". (for example, the very beginning of Triumvirat's debut album is a brilliant transcription of the Mozart overture to the opera "The Abduction Of The Seraglio".)
Guess Triumvirat isn't the perfect example. My point is that a lot of non-Krautrock related 70's (West) German prog rock acts tried to mask their German-ness. They would sing only in English, make no references to the German art/culture, avoid Germany-specific social commentary like a plague and so on. The Italians were much more open about their own history, politics and nationality.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
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