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The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Points: 8614 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2024 at 12:57
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.





But, then there were great Progressive Rock bands from Germany in the 1970s that were not really Krautrock but still very relevant to counterculture, and the youth, like Triumvirat, The PInk Mice, Wallenstein, for example....
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 


Italians are more emotional.

Well, there are many reasons.

But, remember: not only VdGG but even Gentle Giant and Genesis were very successful in Italy - and quite ignored in England.

EL&P and Jethro Tull albums were bestsellers.

This excellent article (language: Italian) 

explains the characteristics of prog in Italy and why it was so successful, i.e. why Italy produced more prog bands than any other continental European country and why it decreed the success of many English prog bands in advance.

The reasons are not so much emotional as intellectual and political:

"Progressive rock in the English-speaking world had no political orientation: it could have functions of social commentary (Jethro Tull and King Crimson) or philosophical (Moody Blues) or existential (VdGG) or spiritual (Yes), or even more frequently invented fairy-tale scenarios of complete escapism from reality (Genesis, Gentle Giant). Rock In Opposition is practically a non-issue: it took shape when prog was in its decline and remained a marginal and completely underground phenomenon.
In Italy, the political neutrality of prog was not perceived, probably also due to the very poor knowledge of English that characterised our nation at the time. Instead, its ability to deconstruct the prevailing song form was perceived. Songs were shattered and lengthened, deprived of their typical structural barycentre composed of the precise alternation of verse and refrain, following unusual tempos and instrumental digressions hitherto unheard of. If one analyses the musical structure of prog records, its anarchic power - insofar as formally contrary to a recipe hitherto dominant in its own market - is evident, and to be perceived does not require an understanding of the lyrics. 
It is not difficult to guess the conclusion: if the music rails against the established order, it is obvious that it is the work as a whole that does so.
Ours was the democratic country with the largest communist party in Europe, not to mention certain clamorous actions of the extra-parliamentary left, and the ideologisation of music marked the intelligentsia and the student movements of the 1970s: the episodes and anecdotes that can be recounted in this regard are innumerable, from the boycott against Lou Reed to De Gregori's protest, from the accusations of fascism levelled at Lucio Battisti (and Museo Rosenbach) to the spread of festivals and independent radio stations. In such a context, prog had fertile ground to flourish, and it flourished in its most truthful and committed dimension." 

I can add that in Italy, where rock tradition was weak, there was, instead a rich tradition of classic music and prog rock was associated to the cultured musician of classic music.
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Points: 2932 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2024 at 09:55
I wonder if Italians "claim" Nino Ferrer. He has great some great prog-like songs from the 70s
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 18244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2024 at 08:47
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 


Italians are more emotional.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15087 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2024 at 08:19
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.
Yes, every correspondence with what happened in Germany or Denmark or the rest of Europe is welcome.

When talking about Denmark in the '70s, I think that the most countercultural/leftist band with at least some progressive leanings was Savage Rose.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Points: 5348 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 18:03
I think PFM recorded an Italian cover of Rain and Tears called Lacrime e pioggia.
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I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
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Points: 4772 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 17:42
Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Points: 5983 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 13:19
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.


Yes, every corrispondence with what happened in Germany or Denmark or the rest of Europe is welcome.
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15087 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 08:51

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.







Edited by David_D - November 03 2024 at 08:59
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
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Points: 5983 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 07:31
This is my new blog about the Seventies in Italy but, for extension, in Europe and in the West.

This is the golden age of prog and, in Italy, it coincided with the years of the student movement and of the armed struggle.

The prog bands themselves, for the most part (PFM, Banco, Area and later Stormy Six are only the most famous), belonged to what was called, generically, the ‘Movement’. 

In Italy the Seventies begin with the end of 1969, when (12th december) four bombs exploded in Rome and in Milan.

In Milan one of these bomb made a massacre called "La strage di Piazza Fontana".

That massacre prepared gli "Anni di Piombo", the Years of Lead (or the years of the armed struggle).

But before Piazza Fontana there was the student movement in 1967-68 in all of Europe.

Which songs dominated the Italian charts in 1968?
One was this one: 



 
 


Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 03 2024 at 09:16
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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