Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The 1970s: counterculture, music, peace & struggle
    Posted: November 03 2024 at 07:31
This is my new blog about the Seventies in Italy but, for extension, in Europe and in the West.

This is the golden age of prog and, in Italy, it coincided with the years of the student movement and of the armed struggle.

The prog bands themselves, for the most part (PFM, Banco, Area and later Stormy Six are only the most famous), belonged to what was called, generically, the ‘Movement’. 

In Italy the Seventies begin with the end of 1969, when (12th december) four bombs exploded in Rome and in Milan.

In Milan one of these bomb made a massacre called "La strage di Piazza Fontana".

That massacre prepared gli "Anni di Piombo", the Years of Lead (or the years of the armed struggle).

But before Piazza Fontana there was the student movement in 1967-68 in all of Europe.

Which songs dominated the Italian charts in 1968?
One was this one: 



 
 


Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 03 2024 at 09:16
"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
David_D View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 26 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Points: 14984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 08:51

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.







Edited by David_D - November 03 2024 at 08:59
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 13:19
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.


Yes, every corrispondence with what happened in Germany or Denmark or the rest of Europe is welcome.
"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 17:42
Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2024 at 18:03
I think PFM recorded an Italian cover of Rain and Tears called Lacrime e pioggia.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
David_D View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 26 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Points: 14984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 39 minutes ago at 08:19
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.
Yes, every correspondence with what happened in Germany or Denmark or the rest of Europe is welcome.

When talking about Denmark in the '70s, I think that the most countercultural/leftist band with at least some progressive leanings was Savage Rose.

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 18115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 11 minutes ago at 08:47
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 


Italians are more emotional.
Back to Top
MortSahlFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 2920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 3 minutes ago at 09:55
I wonder if Italians "claim" Nino Ferrer. He has great some great prog-like songs from the 70s
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 18 minutes ago at 11:40
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Why was it in Italy, unlike in home country England, that Pawn Hearts was so successful?
 


Italians are more emotional.

Well, there are many reasons.

But, remember: not only VdGG but even Gentle Giant and Genesis were very successful in Italy - and quite ignored in England.

EL&P and Jethro Tull albums were bestsellers.

This excellent article (language: Italian) 

explains the characteristics of prog in Italy and why it was so successful, i.e. why Italy produced more prog bands than any other continental European country and why it decreed the success of many English prog bands in advance.

The reasons are not so much emotional as intellectual and political:

"Progressive rock in the English-speaking world had no political orientation: it could have functions of social commentary (Jethro Tull and King Crimson) or philosophical (Moody Blues) or existential (VdGG) or spiritual (Yes), or even more frequently invented fairy-tale scenarios of complete escapism from reality (Genesis, Gentle Giant). Rock In Opposition is practically a non-issue: it took shape when prog was in its decline and remained a marginal and completely underground phenomenon.
In Italy, the political neutrality of prog was not perceived, probably also due to the very poor knowledge of English that characterised our nation at the time. Instead, its ability to deconstruct the prevailing song form was perceived. Songs were shattered and lengthened, deprived of their typical structural barycentre composed of the precise alternation of verse and refrain, following unusual tempos and instrumental digressions hitherto unheard of. If one analyses the musical structure of prog records, its anarchic power - insofar as formally contrary to a recipe hitherto dominant in its own market - is evident, and to be perceived does not require an understanding of the lyrics. 
It is not difficult to guess the conclusion: if the music rails against the established order, it is obvious that it is the work as a whole that does so.
Ours was the democratic country with the largest communist party in Europe, not to mention certain clamorous actions of the extra-parliamentary left, and the ideologisation of music marked the intelligentsia and the student movements of the 1970s: the episodes and anecdotes that can be recounted in this regard are innumerable, from the boycott against Lou Reed to De Gregori's protest, from the accusations of fascism levelled at Lucio Battisti (and Museo Rosenbach) to the spread of festivals and independent radio stations. In such a context, prog had fertile ground to flourish, and it flourished in its most truthful and committed dimension." 

I can add that in Italy, where rock tradition was weak, there was, instead a rich tradition of classic music and prog rock was associated to the cultured musician of classic music.






"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8589
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 1 minutes ago at 12:57
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.





But, then there were great Progressive Rock bands from Germany in the 1970s that were not really Krautrock but still very relevant to counterculture, and the youth, like Triumvirat, The PInk Mice, Wallenstein, for example....
Back to Top
David_D View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 26 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Points: 14984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 11 minutes ago at 13:47
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.
But, then there were great Progressive Rock bands from Germany in the 1970s that were not really Krautrock but still very relevant to counterculture, and the youth, like Triumvirat, The PInk Mice, Wallenstein, for example....

Sure, and for instance, Oktober which made Die Pariser Commune (1977), an ambitious concept double album about The Paris Commune of 1871 seen from left-wing perspective.

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8589
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 5 minutes ago at 14:53
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This blog looks very interesting to me Thumbs Up, and if extension to other European countries, Germany would be very obvious, even not Progressive Rock as I see it but Krautrock.
But, then there were great Progressive Rock bands from Germany in the 1970s that were not really Krautrock but still very relevant to counterculture, and the youth, like Triumvirat, The PInk Mice, Wallenstein, for example....

Sure, and for instance, Oktober which made Die Pariser Commune (1977), an ambitious concept double album about The Paris Commune of 1871 seen from left-wing perspective.

Thanks for the heads up; will check Oktober...
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 31 minutes ago at 15:27
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

I think PFM recorded an Italian cover of Rain and Tears called Lacrime e pioggia.

Franco Battiato


"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 27 minutes ago at 15:31
Sorry, I meant Quelli.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 25 minutes ago at 16:33
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Sorry, I meant Quelli.

Oh yeah, I Quelli ---> Pfm - Lacrime e pioggia

But even I Trolls ----> New Trolls - Lacrime e pioggia


"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 15 minutes ago at 16:43
In 1968 the success of RAIN AND TEARS was so great that many Italian artists make a cover:

Prog artists:

- I QUELLI  (then Pfm)

- I Trolls (then New Trolls)

- Franco Battiato

plus melodic singers:

- Armando Savini, Barbarella, Dalida, Robot (Bobby Solo, Little Tont, Rosanna Fratello) and recently Ivana Spagna)

From this emblematic example, we can conclude that 

much Italian prog music descends directly from beat groups (Pfm, New Trolls, Area, Le Orme), and that beat groups and melodic singers in the late 1960s followed English fashions, reinterpreting some English hits in Italian.

"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
David_D View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 26 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Points: 14984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 2 minutes ago at 16:56
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

This excellent article (language: Italian) 
.......................
"Progressive rock in the English-speaking world had no political orientation: it could have functions of social commentary (Jethro Tull and King Crimson) or philosophical (Moody Blues) or existential (VdGG) or spiritual (Yes), or even more frequently invented fairy-tale scenarios of complete escapism from reality (Genesis, Gentle Giant). ..............." 

Okay, I think that Political Prog and other socially-concerned threads/polls, I've started, have clearly documented that it was not quite so. Even it's of course also a question of the definition of "political", and the English-speaking Prog was definitely not so political as the Italian.


Edited by David_D - 7 hours 30 minutes ago at 17:28
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 49 minutes ago at 17:09
Quote "Progressive rock in the English-speaking world had no political orientation: it could have functions of social commentary (Jethro Tull and King Crimson) or philosophical (Moody Blues) or existential (VdGG) or spiritual (Yes)
I see this as a good thing. That's what made the English language prog rock equally as emotionally charged as the Italian scene but in the long run, way more timeless.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 5926
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 14 minutes ago at 17:44
@David
@Hyrchu

Let me try to make the concept clearer.

English prog was born as a neutral movement in relation to politics, it was not born out of youth protests, out of the hangouts of political militants. This means that English prog is not politically oriented. (But there may be some political prog songs).

In Italy, on the other hand, the situation is different. In Italy, in the 1970s, either you're right-wing or you're left-wing, either you're a fascist or you're a communist, there's little middle ground, and everything is pigeonholed into ‘either you're with me or you're against me’. So music, song lyrics, clothes, everything has political connotations.

Roxy Music are inevitably right-wing and loved by fascists just because of the way they dress and the cover art of their albums - their music or lyrics dont matter. 

So, in Italy, prog is ‘adopted’ by the left wing extra-parliamentary movement as anti-system music. But this does not mean that Italian prog songs are all political songs, or protest songs: only a few songs are explicitly political, and they are less so than the protest songs of folk songwriters. Furthermore, there are also Catholic ‘movementist’ groups in the seventies, which have their own following, for example the group Le Orme is loved by Catholics, it goes against the trend - I still have to talk about this: in the 1970s in Italy there were two epochal referendums, the one on divorce and the one on abortion, where Catholic and left-wing groups clashed, and prog music also made its contribution to the clash.


"Happiness is real only when shared"
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Online
Points: 5247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 minutes ago at 00:30
So basically prog rock functioned as the proto-Twitter of 70's Italy.

Edited by Hrychu - 28 minutes ago at 00:30
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.155 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.