Do the Beatles get too much credit..

MikeEnRegalia wrote: moshkito wrote: Hi, I kinda wish this thread was locked.  Fans, today, seem to have not a whole lot of appreciation for music history and its placement. You should just ignore random users who say things you do not agree with. Point out how they are wrong and move on

Edited by moshkito - September 06 2024 at 07:10

Catcher10 wrote: .... It's not about being right or wrong, that really does not exist when discussing the arts.....Rather "agree to disagree", then move on.

OK, Greg started this in 2010 and I don't even remember whether I have any posting in here. Anyway the Beatles are great. Arguably still, compared to many other bands, they get even more credit than their greatness should earn them, but if people get crazy about good music that's not a problem for me. I don't really think that noise about the Beatles distracts attention from other good bands. Those that don't listen much to other stuff are probably those that are interested in lyrics, personalities and world peace and not in music in the first place, therefore I have little hope for them anyway. Otherwise the Beatles were a starting point for me and can still be a starting point for some to discover other great 60s/70s music, so all is fine by me.

MortSahlFan wrote: No, but I think The Doors are better

Without The Beatles, The Doors would have sounded like this:



...

I agree The Doors were a higher art form than the Beatles were, matter of fact to me not even close. Again, not sure what better means, the Beatles sold more records so in that regard they were better, but that's it. Sonically, musically The Doors were better, overall the lyrics were more interesting.

^ Are you claiming that The Beatles did not invent blues and jazz?   

Pelata wrote: It is impossible to give The Beatles too much credit...

^ One might say that some threads have more days in their lives than others.

"A Day in the Life" is one of my very favourite songs, and I think of it as a primo progressive song. Nor would I question its influence on Fripp or any others. Credit where credit is due, for me there is no doubt that The Beatles have been hugely influential, have brought innovations into the rock context, and are a hugely significant band, but I have seen many people go too far when it comes to giving credit to The Beatles that does not seem warranted or deserved. I, and others, have pointed out various of those things in this thread, and yet still some will think that The Beatles deserve every ounce of credit they get.

By the way, anyone who may take this topic as somehow against the Beatles is not coming from the angle I am. I really like the Beatles and that should not even be at issue, my thing is that people can be bloody ignorant, are prone to exaggeration, and make very dubious claims. A question to me becomes, how common is it to give The Beatles too much credit when it comes to origination and innovation? And how common is "common"? By the way, these days I would have gone into more details in the OP, but I know I wanted to keep it short at the time as I did not want to over-influence others thinking and hear people's own arguments. Adding the word "common" to it wad problematic and I think a mistake. I would phrase it differently now. I had wanted to approach those for myself from certain philosophical angles (epistemology, ontology...), and hopefully leave space for humour to flourish to boot.

EDIT (just cause this came to my head while showering): It would not be disrespectful to The Beatles to counter the claim that The Beatles' "Yellow Submarine" influenced Jules Verne to write Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, and therefore suggest that The Beatles are being given too much credit than they deserve in that case. But someone might say "No one claims that." Well, I have not polled the world. I do know one person who has said (or written) it at least, but I'm confident that he, that is I, does not believe it.

Edited by Logan - September 09 2024 at 20:39

And I believe that those people and many others found The Beatles influential. The Beatles being hugely influential is obvious to me and I know it as well as I can know anything with similar anecdotal qualities. It is what might be called a justified true belief. Some people have more well-informed opinions than others, some have misinformed opinions. Some opinions are easier to justify than others. Some are more valid than others. People are going to have well-informed and misinformed opinions whether we like it or not. It's not just of interest to me what one thinks, but how one thinks.

A side-note: But one idea I loathe, and I have seen it here, is that all opinions should be treated with respect. And I have seen people say that all opinions are equal.

EDIT: Relating to the "Meh" comment, I recognise that different people have different interests and perspectives, and provided those are not harmful to others (and often themselves) generally, I will respect and appreciate that. Thanks to all for their lively and not so lively comments. I do appreciate the general positivity and consideration.

And another tidbit to edit in (I prefer that to making a new post and therefore double-posting): Not only do many claim that The Beatles was an influence on their music, and I believe them, but I can hear that influence in so much music. It is incredible the impact this group had on people in its relatively short existence operating, and the impact is still happening. It has had an amazing ripple effect. That's why I chose The Beatles for this topic, because of how very influential and recognised it has been.

Edited by Logan - September 09 2024 at 23:21

Another money grab by your Fab Four, you all hurry up and pre-order For Nov release.........USD300.00  

Edited by Catcher10 - September 13 2024 at 15:45

TheLionOfPrague wrote: Yeah, they are the best bands of the '60s but there were tons of artists doing things that were very innovative and revolutionary like Mothers of Invention, Bob Dylan, The Kinks, the Stones, The Doors, The Who, Simon & Garfunkel, etc. Some people act as if they invented the wheel.