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Poetic Pieces for the Mind and Spirit
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2024 at 06:40

While The Doors have maybe made one of the strongest environmental statements in the entire Rock history:

The Doors - "When the Music's Over"    (excerpt)

What have they done to the earth, yeah?
What have they done to our fair sister?
Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn and
Tied her with fences and dragged her down

(from the album Strange Days (1967))
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Now I'll post some Polish lyrics, not least because I really love them, and I'm impressed very much by them:

Niemen Aerolit - "Cztery Sciany Swiata" (Four Walls of the World)

Przed ścianą dźwięku stoją głusi
Modlą się do muzyki
Kiedy nie pragniesz, kiedy musisz
Lepiej być nikim
Przed ścianą płaczu stoją błazny
Śmieszą ich własnych cieniów podrygi
A śmiech ich pusty, śmiech ich straszny
Lepiej być nikim
Przed ścianą światła stoją ślepi
I patrzą bez zmrużenia powiek
O tym co świeci wiedzą lepiej
Niż zwykły człowiek
Pod ścianą straceń stoi heros
Patrzy oprawcom w oczy
Pali ostatni swój papieros
Na skraju nocy
Jest świat ze ścian rosnących w górę
W nim traci wartość słowo
Ja stoję przed zwyczajnym murem
I walę w niego głową
I walę w niego głową
(from the album Niemen Aerolit (1975))

However, it's certainly not easy for me to interpret those lyrics, so Hrychu, I'd like very much to hear what you think.


Edited by David_D - July 22 2024 at 07:47
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The general message, according to my interpretation, is most likely that different societies are not able to fully understand one another due to their framework of understanding being obscured by these metaphorical walls. A bit of a deterministic viewpoint, if you ask me. But there is some truth to it.

Edited by Hrychu - July 22 2024 at 07:55
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2024 at 11:46
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The general message, according to my interpretation, is most likely that different societies are not able to fully understand one another due to their framework of understanding being obscured by these metaphorical walls. A bit of a deterministic viewpoint, if you ask me. But there is some truth to it.

Thank you very much. It's an interesting intepretation, but I don't find it to be able to explain very well the entire text, and not least the fourth verse: 
Pod ścianą straceń stoi heros
Patrzy oprawcom w oczy
Pali ostatni swój papieros
Na skraju nocy

- But then you say, it's the general message.
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2024 at 12:27

Has it ever occurred to you, Hrychu, that this original poem of Jonasz Kofta could be a political statement?








Edited by David_D - July 23 2024 at 10:37
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Here's an English translation of "Cztery Sciany Swiata", made by Google Translate and slightly corrected by me:

Niemen Aerolit - "Four Walls of the World"

In front of the wall of sound stand the deaf ones
They pray to the music
When you don't desire, when you have to
Better be nobody

In front of the wailing wall stand the clowns
They laugh at their own shadows' twitches
And their laughter is empty, their laughter is terrible
Better be nobody

In front of the wall of light stand the blind ones
And they look without blinking 
About what shines, they know better 
Than an ordinary man
 
A hero stands in front of the wall of execution 
Looks the executioners in the eyes 
Smokes his last cigarette 
On the edge of the night 

There is a world made of walls growing upwards 
In it the word loses its value 
I stand in front of an ordinary wall 
And I bang my head against it
And I bang my head against it
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 12:15

^ These lyrics look definitely to me as criticism of something social, the question is just of what.








Edited by David_D - July 25 2024 at 12:45
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^ I've written this already in another thread, but I think, it's good to do it here as well:

Cindy has this interpretation of Niemen's "Four Walls of the World": "the Wall represents unmoveable government oppression and different folks' responses to a Wall of Pain." 
I find this interpretation to be rather good, but I think that instead of government, it's better to say that the wall represents the Party (PZPR), or maybe even the political or the whole system. But I can also be in doubt about whether Czeslaw Niemen, the greatest Polish Rock star at that time, would be stating such heavy criticism, even in a symbolic way.
Edit:
The original Polish title of "Four Walls of the World" is "Cztery Sciany Swiata", and it may be easily associated with "cztery strony swiata" which is the Polish expression for the four directions of the world: East, West, North and South. Having this as a starting point for the interpretation of the song, it may be more obvious with another one than the quoted.
Further, I don't know that much about Czeslaw Niemen, but I think of him as more concerned with human beings in general, or the mankind, than with politics.


Edited by David_D - August 01 2024 at 04:52
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2024 at 04:25

These lyrics, I find to be some of the very greatest:

King Crimson - "Epitaph"

The wall on which the prophets wrote
Is cracking at the seams
Upon the instruments of death
The sunlight brightly gleams
When every man is torn apart
With nightmares and with dreams
Will no one lay the laurel wreath
When silence drowns the screams
Confusion will be my epitaph
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it, we can all sit back and laugh
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Yes, I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Between the iron gates of fate
The seeds of time were sown
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known
Knowledge is a deadly friend
If no one sets the rules
The fate of all mankind, I see
Is in the hands of fools
(from the album In the Court of the Crimson King (1969))
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

^ I've written this already in another thread, but I think, it's good to do it here as well:

Cindy has this interpretation of Niemen's "Four Walls of the World": "the Wall represents unmoveable government oppression and different folks' responses to a Wall of Pain." 
I find this interpretation to be rather good, but I think that instead of government, it's better to say that the wall represents the Party (PZPR), or maybe even the political or the whole system. But I can also be in doubt about whether Czeslaw Niemen, the greatest Polish Rock star at that time, would be stating such heavy criticism, even in a symbolic way.
Edit:
The original Polish title of "Four Walls of the World" is "Cztery Sciany Swiata", and it may be easily associated with "cztery strony swiata" which is the Polish expression for the four directions of the world: East, West, North and South. Having this as a starting point for the interpretation of the song, it may be more obvious with another one than the quoted.
Further, I don't know that much about Czeslaw Niemen, but I think of him as more concerned with human beings in general, or the mankind, than with politics.

If the title "Four Walls of the World" is also meant to be associated with the four directions of the world, the afore-mentioned interpretation could be defended if changed to concerning the whole world-widespread marxism/communism/socialism the way it had been practiced by regimes. Such an interpretation can also be supported by the red, or even blood-red, wall on the coverart and not least in the eyes of the depicted face. However, stating such heavy criticism is even harder to me to believe, even there was a quite strong oppositional movement emerging in Poland in the mid-'70s, which was mostly leftist though.

                                   


Edited by David_D - August 02 2024 at 07:53
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only god knows 
how someone becomes
such a
patetisk nar

a sad story
of a human creature


Edited by David_D - August 05 2024 at 06:08
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Here's the original version of Niemen's "Dziwny Jest Ten Swiat" translated to English by Google Translate and slightly corrected by me.

Czeslaw Niemen - "Strange Is This World"

Strange is this world
where still
so much evil resides.
And strange is that
for so many years,
Man has despised Man.

Strange is this world,
the world of human affairs,
sometimes it is embarrassing to admit it.
And yet it is often the case
that someone
kills with an evil word as if with a knife.

But there are most people of the good will
and I strongly believe that
this world
will never perish thanks to them.
No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!
The time has come, it is high time
to destroy hatred in yourself.

(from the album Strange Is This World (1967))

It's a great song and to me, it's first and foremost about the belief that despite all the evil, the "people of the good will" will ensure 
the further existence of the human world. Or it's maybe more an appeal to conflicting parts to overcome hatred, compromise and 
solve the conflicts - a kind of flower power message.


Edited by David_D - August 04 2024 at 06:53
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Some very poignant, engaged and touching anti-war lyrics by the early Genesis:

Genesis - "Supper's Ready"    (excerpt)

Wearing feelings on our faces while our faces took a rest
We walked across the fields to see the children of the West
But we saw a host of dark skinned warriors standing still below the ground
Waiting for battle
The fight's begun, they've been released
Killing foe for peace, bang, bang, bang
Bang, bang, bang
And they've given me a wonderful potion
'Cause I cannot contain my emotion
And even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule
Today's a day to celebrate, the foe have met their fate
The order for rejoicing and dancing has come from our warlord
Wandering in the chaos the battle has left
We climb up the mountain of human flesh
To a plateau of green grass, and green trees full of life
A young figure sits still by a pool
He's been stamped "Human Bacon" by some butchery tool
He is you

(from the album Foxtrot (1972))
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These great lyrics by Black Sabbath are definitely missing in this thread:

Black Sabbath - "Children of the Grave"
Revolution in their minds, the children start to march
Against the world in which they have to live
And all the hate that's in their hearts
They're tired of being pushed around
And told just what to do
They'll fight the world until they've won
And love comes flowing through
Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today
Will the sun rise up tomorrow, bring in peace in any way?
Must the world live in the shadow of atomic fear?
Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear?
So, you children of the world
Listen to what I say
If you want a better place to live in
Spread the word today
Show the world that love is still alive, you must be brave
Or you children of today are children of the grave
(from the album Master of Reality (1971))
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Points: 15119 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2024 at 05:27

While "Children of the Grave" were worried and called for action, it has to be noticed that "Supper's Ready" seems (just?) to be optimistic about the future of human societies, and sees "the new Jerusalem" as the model for a perfect, fulfilled society (at least according to Edward Macan's Rocking the Classics, 1997 p. 81):

Genesis - "Supper's Ready"    (excerpt)

Can't you feel our souls ignite?
Shedding ever-changing colours
In the darkness of the fading night
Like the river joins the ocean
As the germ in a seed grows
We have finally been freed to get back home
There's an angel standing in the sun
And he's crying with a loud voice
"This is the supper of the mighty one"
Lord of Lords, King of Kings
Has returned to lead his children home
To take them to the new Jerusalem
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About my use of the term "ideology" here, I can tell that I use it in a very broad sense. For instance and as I see it, there's no really principal difference between political ideologies and religions of any kind, so I call them all "ideologies". So I use this term in the meaning of something like any set of ideas and values which has some importance for the life of some human beings.






Edited by David_D - November 02 2024 at 06:16
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Here's something that I've already written about in another thread, but I think that it's very suitable to post here as well.

In 1972, the Danish band Savage Rose made the album Dødens Triumf (The Triumph of Death). It's some music written for a ballet by one of the most appreciated choreographers in the '70s Denmark, Flemming Flindt. It's also a ballet based on Jeu de Massacre, a play by Eugené Ionescu, and on the back cover of this album is a quote from the book The Wretched of the Earth (1961) by Frantz Fanon, a French Afro-Caribbean psychiatrist, political philosopher, and Marxist from the French colony of Martinique (today a French department).* 

This quote is not a poem, but I think that it can be said to possess something poetic and certainly something "for the mind and spirit". It says:

Leave this Europe 
where they are never done talking of Man, 
yet murder men everywhere they find them, 
at the corner of every one of their own streets, 
in all the corners of the globe. 
For centuries they have stifled almost the whole of humanity 
in the name of a so-called spiritual experience. 
Look at them today swaying between atomic and spiritual disintegration.

(The quote on the back cover is translated to Danish, while I quote it here in an English version as it's transcribed and printed by https://www.marxists.org/subject/africa/fanon/conclusion.htm 
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon )


Edited by David_D - November 07 2024 at 06:09
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Points: 5986 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2024 at 10:41
"Venite pure avanti, voi con il naso corto
signori imbellettati, io più non vi sopporto
infilerò la penna ben dentro al vostro orgoglio
perché con questa spada vi uccido quando voglio
enite pure avanti poeti sgangherati
inutili cantanti di giorni sciagurati
buffoni che campate di versi senza forza
avrete soldi e gloria, ma non avete scorza
godetevi il successo, godete finché dura
ché il pubblico è ammaestrato e non vi fa paura
e andate chissà dove per non pagar le tasse
col ghigno e l'ignoranza dei primi della classe
io sono solo un povero cadetto di Guascogna
però non la sopporto la gente che non sogna
gli orpelli? L'arrivismo? All'amo non abbocco
e al fin della licenza io non perdono e tocco
io non perdono, non perdono e tocco!"

Translation:

"Come forward, you short-nosed
you embellished gentlemen, I can't stand you any longer
I will thrust my pen well into your pride
Because with this sword I will kill you when I want to
Come forth you ramshackle poets
useless singers of wretched days
buffoons who live on verse without strength
You have money and glory, but you have no zest
Enjoy success, enjoy it while it lasts
Because the public is trained and doesn't scare you
And go who knows where not to pay taxes
with the sneer and ignorance of the top of the class
I am only a poor cadet of Gascony
But I can't stand people who don't dream
the trappings? The arrivism? To the hook I do not bite
And at the end of licence I do not forgive and touch
I do not forgive and touch!

(Francesco Guccini, "Cyrano")


Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 07 2024 at 10:45
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Thumbs Up
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Points: 5986 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2024 at 14:46
"C'è chi l'amore lo fa per noia
chi se lo sceglie per professione
bocca di rosa né l'uno né l'altro
lei lo faceva per passione.
Ma la passione spesso conduce
a soddisfare le proprie voglie
senza indagare se il concupito
ha il cuore libero oppure ha moglie.
E fu così che da un giorno all'altro
bocca di rosa si tirò addosso
l'ira funesta delle cagnette
a cui aveva sottratto l'osso.
Ma le comari di un paesino
non brillano certo in iniziativa
le contromisure fino a quel punto
si limitavano all'invettiva.
Si sa che la gente dà buoni consigli
sentendosi come Gesù nel tempio,
si sa che la gente dà buoni consigli
se non può più dare cattivo esempio.
Così una vecchia mai stata moglie
senza mai figli, senza più voglie,
si prese la briga e di certo il gusto
di dare a tutte il consiglio giusto.
E rivolgendosi alle cornute
le apostrofò con parole argute:
"il furto d'amore sarà punito-
disse- dall'ordine costituito".
E quelle andarono dal commissario
e dissero senza parafrasare:
"quella schifosa ha già troppi clienti
più di un consorzio alimentare".

translation:

"There are those who make love out of boredom
those who choose it by profession
Mouth Of Rose neither one nor the other
she did it out of passion.
But passion often leads
to satisfy one's cravings
without inquiring whether the concupied
has a free heart or has a wife.
And so it was that from one day to the next
Mouth Of Rose brought upon herself
the bitches' wrath
whose bone he had taken from them.
But the comrades of a small town
certainly do not shine in initiative
the countermeasures up to that point
were limited to invective.
People have been known to give good advice
feeling like Jesus in the temple,
people are known to give good advice
if they can no longer set a bad example.
So an old woman who had never been a wife
with no children, with no more cravings,
took the trouble and certainly the pleasure
to give them all the right advice.
And turning to the cuckolds
she apostrophised them with witty words:
‘the theft of love will be punished-
she said- by the established order'.
And they went to the commissioner
and said without paraphrasing:
‘that bitch already has too many customers
more than a food consortium'."

(Fabrizio De André - Bocca di Rosa: Mouth Of Rose)




Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 07 2024 at 14:49
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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