ELP Underrated?

^ originally the mid section had it's own song 'A dog named blue' off the top of my head which was a clap along audience thing. You can find it on some early ELP live stuff.

Edited by richardh - May 01 2024 at 21:37

While I would still say that its underrated by some and overrated by others, having seen claims that it's underrated many times gives me the impression that it's terribly overrated (at least by those who would insist that it's terribly underrated).

^ I'm sure many do underappreciate ELP, but I have known various individuals at PA who recognise the contributions and significance to rock generally and to Prog specifically, as well as the talent on display, but just don't enjoy qualities of the music much or how that talent is used.  The debut is most liked by me.  I think it's the lack of subtlety in part from ELP in certain music, the show-off-ness, that puts many off.  There is a  bandwagon effect that more now might well focus on certain qualities that are seen as negative now due to common criticisms.  And it's not as known now as it is not now trendy.  That said, while one might argue that it is underappreciated by the majority into progressive music now, one might also say that it was over-appreciated at the time by the masses.   An issue I have had with various posters at PA has been that they feel that ELP is entitled to be in the top 100 albums chart and that it is wrong and an injustice for ELP not to get better representation in the chart.  That ELP deserves to higher rated in the chart. The chart is a popularity list based on an amalgamation of the ratings of what individuals have rated and how they rated those albums.  I do not believe that people are underrating it who opt not to rate the albums or rate them highly.  That one would like to see the band more popular again, fine, but it is the sense of entitlement of some ELP fans, the ignorance of how the charts operate and what they represent, and scorn for those who think less of ELP that has been an issue from my perspective.  My perspective mostly comes from PA forum interactions and is less "global" than many.

^ And I prefer the term underrated to proctalgia fugax.  To each his or her own.

Edited by octopus-4 - May 03 2024 at 02:46

Big Sky wrote: Logan wrote: ^ I'm sure many do underappreciate ELP, but I have known various individuals at PA who recognise the contributions and significance to rock generally and to Prog specifically, as well as the talent on display, but just don't enjoy qualities of the music much or how that talent is used.  The debut is most liked by me.  I think it's the lack of subtlety in part from ELP in certain music, the show-off-ness, that puts many off.  There is a  bandwagon effect that more now might well focus on certain qualities that are seen as negative now due to common criticisms.  And it's not as known now as it is not now trendy.  That said, while one might argue that it is underappreciated by the majority into progressive music now, one might also say that it was over-appreciated at the time by the masses.    An issue I have had with various posters at PA has been that they feel that ELP is entitled to be in the top 100 albums chart and that it is wrong and an injustice for ELP to not get better representation in the chart.  That ELP deserves to be higher rated in the chart. The chart is a popularity list based on an amalgamation of the ratings of what individuals have rated and how they rated those albums.  I do not believe that people are underrating it who opt not to rate the albums or rate them highly.  That one would like to see the band more popular again, fine, but it is the sense of entitlement of some ELP fans, the ignorance of how the charts operate and what they represent, and scorn for those who think less of ELP that has been an issue from my perspective.  My perspective mostly comes from PA forum interactions and is less "global" than many. Logan, I understand what you are saying. That one can appreciate the importance of ELP to Prog Rock, indeed they are on the short list of most important bands to the genre of Prog, but not necessarily be a fan of their music. I guess Eddie Van Halen would be that for me in the guitar world. I recognize his importance to guitar generally and rock guitar specifically. He is one of the two most important rock guitarists ever. You can argue over if you want to place Hendrix or Eddie in the top spot. However, I can list probably over a hundred guitarists I rather listen to before picking Van Halen. If it's specifically Rock guitarist, then there are certainly at least 50 I would pick. His style was never one that I wanted to absorb in my playing as a guitarist. Howe, Morse, Lifeson, Fripp, McLaughlin were the guys that I was more interested in as a guitarist. I will say as far as ELP is concerned, I would have 3 albums in my top 100 as far as PA is concerned. BSS and maybe Trilogy would be in my top 50.

I agree their 1970-1974 period seems underrated in the TOP 100, at least compared to the other "Big 6" bands. Even other bands like Gentle Giant, VDGG, or even more unknown bands for the general public like PFM seem to have higher rated albums. 

richardh wrote: Oh this bloody top 100 thing again. ELP albums are rated correctly with maybe the exception being BSS. The first 4 studio albums are all around 4 (excellent addition to a prog collection). The triple album also has a similar rating. The rating system though on PA is very unsophiscated with no half marks allowed. Quite likely BSS would achieve a slightly higher rating if you didn't have to deduct a whole point for the risable BTB (that has always harmed it's standing here I believe). That's my main complaint but it's not a big one because ELP decided to include it and that's a mistake they have to own (when they toured the album it was the only track they didn't play so go figure). I believe a lot of stuff on PA only gets higher rated because the quality is more even and consistent , for instance Supertramps Crime Of The Century is a very enjoyable album but hardly ground breaking or innovative (ELP were those things IMO). 'Tramp were mainly good at soaking up influences and making things nice and tidy and the likes of Camel and a few others were also more in that mould as well. ELP were untidy and rather happier out in the world performing where they had less arguments and potential falling outs! Considering the number of albums released every year I would like to see more modern albums rated higher and it actually annoys me a tad that so much of the top 100 is the last century. But you have the filters and can pick years (grouped if you want) and so that's cool. I think it's much better to consider PA as a resource to try and gets to grip with the much varied many headed beast that is 'prog rock' rather than some form of bible. BTW over the years I've concluded that Gentle Giant fans are just as bad as ELP fans when it comes to being self entitled . Fact is ELP sold a shedload of albums and could stand on a stage and not look at out place next to the giants of rock music (Sabbath, LZ , Purple etc) . They could perform the sh*t out of it, sell out massive staduims and actually had personality. Beyond this they had one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century in Keith Emerson who had the talent to create Tarkus and Karn Evil 9. I only care about talent at the end of the day. ELP were all about talent and not about consistency or making good decisions. I'll take the former any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Their post-Welcome Back My Friends... stuff did a lot of harm to their reputation, even if Works Vol 1 was a good and innovative album. 

^Yes Keith was collaborating with Bob Moog in developing the first polyphonic synth (there were a couple of duophonic models but by "polyphonic" here we mean with 3 voices or more).