ELP Underrated? |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35403 |
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^ It would be really cool if you also hung your bath on the wall.
As for ELP -- my stock answer when it comes to such questions commonly -- overrated by some and underrated by others. |
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Two tracks per many of my fave acts: A Youtube Playlist
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Jacob Schoolcraft
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 22 2021 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 1039 |
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People have their heroes and the abundance of people mentioning Neil before Carl is most likely based on their love for Rush and not ELP. As music is subjective but a lot of times it is overrated. For example the way in which the internet represents Led Zeppelin being hailed as the most iconic Rock band during the Golden age of Rock...when I was a teenager. They were in fact NOT! They were thought to be great alongside others. Rock Music was divided amongst us. The generation I grew up with....the 70s ...is very misinterpreted on the internet. A bunch of lies and hot air. It's pretty self explanatory as to why and how it came to be that more people mention Neil over Carl or Rick over Keith. On another note...prior to Rush making appearances on national TV Emerson had made a name for himself. He was legendary. Several bands were influenced by The Nice and ELP. Beggars Opera, Trace, Triumvirate and others. Obviously ELP made an impact earlier in the 70s. Keith Emerson was super influential to keyboardists around the world. Keith Emerson was so ridiculously popular. People like Michael Quatro and keyboardists in Top 40 bands ...let alone. ..many keyboardists in Progressive Rock bands. Before Rick Wakeman joined Yes...keyboard players were trying to emulate Emerson. |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 16856 |
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Better than a toilet seat cover. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, Music is not as subjective as we think ... until we give credence to folks that think their opinion is more important than the reality of it all ... I have opinions, but I don't believe that I am "the truth" and "the know" of it all ... it is how I saw what I saw during the time. And this is the main reason why I am not a great fan of the "best of" or the "greatest of" or some other fan ideas about some folks. Even Carl Palmer will tell you that he dislikes comparisons, and he finds them unfair. He had his touch. Neil had his touch. Bonzo had his touch. Moonie had his touch ... and none of them were the same, thus, making the whole discussion of who is greater, a really stupid joke ... not to mention that they also played very different music, some of which was not appreciated at the time, but came to be loved soon after ... I can remember a station in Madison WI making fun of The Nice ... they think they are doing classical music ... and can't play a note! I replied, that I was not sure who the station was comparing these folks to ... the over rated classical folks that played Sunday Nights on campus? Many of them are not that great ... except one I did get to see ... Mr. Segovia ... he blew a string in the middle of a piece, and continued playing around it, and 6 minutes later when it ended, he asked ... did that sound OK? And he got an immediate ovation, which he almost cried in disbelief. Again, my main issue is how we "think" that we know it all and thus have the right to DECIDE what is good and what is not good, or great. Led Zeppelin was perfect for its time and place. And they MADE bootlegs famous along with the Beatles and Grateful Dead ... it showed what a magnificent band they were on stage in their first 3 years or so ... incredible, and impossible to get a ticket! One series sold like 7 locations in less than 3 hours, to give you an idea ... that's not exactly the sign of a lazy, poor, and ridiculous band, like a few that are "listed" today, that have no track record whatsoever to show for their supposed talent! What hurt it all was when around 1974/1975, it was then very clear that it was all about the loudness and the noise that the bands made, and some of them were not that great ... for all the love of Deep Purple, that was a concert I walked out of ... out of tune, too loud, and not together or clean ... like a rehearsal was above and beyond their need ... right after Leon Russell put on a show case of how good a show could be without being loud! The other show I walked out of was The Rolling Stones ... they were horrible on stage as many bootlegs showed ... only took 3 songs and 15 minutes to leave! I agree with you that the fan base has a tendency to ignore the time and place, and I have heard some folks even say that Woodstock was stupid ... like it meant nothing to anyone, THEN ... and is still meaningless today, because of the media hatred towards many folks, hippies and some drugs. And no one stands up for these bands, and what the whole thing was about ... which, TODAY, is so meaningless, it's not funny ... no one discusses the lyrics anymore, as if the majority of rap bands had more to say than all rock bands put together ... we don't even care what the guy sang about ... because we liked the song ... which many can not even tell you what it is about! It's sad ... and this is the reason why I try to post meaningful content, as opposed to fan crap ... and discussing a bath towel or bathroom carpet ... wow ... the talent of ... is astounding! Yeah it's fun ... but in a thread about the music? It tells you everything you need to know about it all ... and the Internet!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20602 |
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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SteveG
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Edited by SteveG - April 10 2024 at 13:47 |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 16856 |
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Thanks for saying that, I hate how LZ gets retroactively proclaimed the "greatest of the great" 70s rock bands when ELP, Yes, and Santana were HUGE then. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18106 |
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^ Yes but none of those bands were as big as Led Zeppelin (and probably not even close).
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 10 2024 at 16:21 |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 16856 |
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Don't worry, Mike. Santana's been unquestionably bigger than all of them since 1999, just not for the right reasons (with the exception of Santana IV).
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27734 |
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The original question by the OP was about the ratings for ELP on PA and their respective place in the album heirarchy. There are simple reasons for this the most obvious being that the rating system encourages only 5 stars for masterpeices. When you compare BSS to say Close To The Edge it's very easy to see why the latter is much higher rated. Nothing strange about that. It's already been pointed out that ELP would do better if individual tracks were rated instead of albums. Take A Pebble and Tarkus would be in a top 20 at least and a few others in a top 50.
Personally I think their only underrated album is Works Volume One. It has some stellar material but much like Tales From Topographic Oceans makes no compromise whatsover to a personal artistic vision and so comes across as 'cold'. Self indulgent it was and sure it has solo stuff but most of it is brilliant and eclectic. After that ELP should have packed in. The president of Atlantic Records insisted they release another album and unwisely that went back into the studio shortly after an exhausting and extensive Works tour. The resultant Love Beach did much to damage their hard earned reputation as one of the biggest and best classic rock bands (they had more in common with Deep Purple and LZ than Gentle Giant or Genesis imo). A rock band lead by a keyboard player was unheard of. They should have stopped when the going was good but hindsight is always a great thing.
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RockHound
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 03 2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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A lot of the reason ELP doesn’t have more albums in the top 100 is almost every album has a track or two that keeps it below 5 stars. I love everything from the debut through BSS, but BSS is the only 5-star album for me. Yet I proudly include them in the big 5 because the great tracks are among the all-time greatest.
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AJ Junior
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 11 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 253 |
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I 100% agree. Although I think their only album without a weak track is the debut. That being said it's not my personal favorite because I think the great songs on Trilogy outweigh it.
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"Together We Stand, Divided We Fall"
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18106 |
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These days ELP are very underrated- especially among the younger prog fans.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18106 |
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I don't hear any weak tracks on the debut. To me their weak tracks are (if any are) Benny the Bouncer, Jeremy Bender and The Sheriff. To me their debut is their best partly because it doesn't have any of those "goofy cowboy songs."
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 10 2024 at 21:35 |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 3036 |
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^I like most of those. Jeremy Bender is... fine, but I dislike Are You Ready, Eddy? way more. I'm not a fan of blues pastiche. Benny the Bouncer, on the other hand, is way more fun, and has an awesome ragtime solo. The Sheriff is my favorite of all of those because while it is pastiche, it's a little less campy and more authentic, and Emerson's solo on that one goes beyond honky-tonk clichés and actually manages to be fresh from a jazz perspective. I will always defend those latter two tracks. It can't be serious all the time.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18106 |
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It can't? Come on this is prog rock we are talking about. It's supposed to be serious! My problem with those tracks isn't so much the intention behind them or the fact that they are different so much as they just sound out of place. I don't really feel like they fit in with the rest of the albums. Their debut doesn't have that issue but I suppose people could complain about that one containing a drum solo. So no, I don't skip the cowboy songs but I prefer the debut at least partly because they aren't there to ruin the continuity. That's just my opinion though. Obviously others disagree although I'm pretty sure many people skip those tracks.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 11 2024 at 00:40 |
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Comic relief has a place. Even Spock's Beard's Senor Valasco's Mystic Voodoo Love Dance shows that.
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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SteveG
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, Nah ... I don't collect "material" things as proof that I met someone or saw someone. And I was one of the first to condemn the folks that went after the pieces of the pig at Anaheim stadium. It really showed that the whole thing was out of control in the hands of fanatics, not fans! AND, with the internet these days, it has gotten even worse ... like you having a bath towel like that validates anything you say or do about ELP! The towel more valuable than the music! One of these days, someone is gonna rip an artist and kill him/her and then float that ... I have a bunch of her hair ... right here ... and all it tells me is that the work itself, the art itself, is not worth it, because someone's pride is elsewhere. I toured with some bands, and my picture was used for GONG for several years, and I am proud of "having been there" with friends and folks that were important to me, not as a fan, but as a PERSON. And people that had a lot of beauty in their hearts and were not exactly showing off their fame ... the memories alone, is more than I need or want. Thank you! Edited by moshkito - April 11 2024 at 12:25 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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