"Democracy is Teetering" |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 10:59 | |||
^ sure. Whenever that will be is anybody’s guess …
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Ukrainian_presidential_election Edited by MikeEnRegalia - April 09 2024 at 10:59 |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2666 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:06 | |||
I don't believe in post-materialist science. As a side note, I'm not a big fan of postmodernism either. There, "solid" doesn't add to the other word. But, you're a deviant. Have your fun and keep your crazy fantasies as you like! Plus, you couldn't reply to my "crucial" point about your clandestine purposes. The same thing had happened, when I alleged it first. Anyway... Have it your way. |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:11 | |||
I'm by now convinced that you are either utterly stupid or just trolling. Sorry to be so blunt, but your systematic oversimplifications are what lead me to such a conclusion. If you think that a country that is at war and has several territories occupied by an enemy can decently organise democratic elections, and thus excluding those occupied territories of that process and as such implicitly recognising that they're not part of the country anymore, then I think you haven't grasped anything of what politics, diplomacy and war are about.
Edited by suitkees - April 09 2024 at 11:32 |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:23 | |||
Not that this is very relevant to this thread, but if you think that energy can exist independent of matter, then I think you don't know what energy is about: it can not exist without matter (and time!).
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2666 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:26 | |||
^ He believes one day he can move mountains from their places by "channeling energy". He said that himself.
Now, who is the real sorcerer? Edited by Archisorcerus - April 09 2024 at 11:26 |
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:29 | |||
Crucial point about clandestine purposes? do you mean this: When a spiritualist and/or conspiracy theorist "intives" you to question some things, they clandestinely mean "Think like we do.". If that's what you are referring to it should have been extrapolated from the following: The same can be said about many quantum physicists, except i'll take out the word all, that's just silly |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10617 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:30 | |||
For those who are not knowledgeable about what happens in a country during an invasion. Yes, life is severely disrupted and many civil liberties are suspended. For instance, when Germany was bombing England during WWII, English citizens were not allowed to turn on lights at night because these lights made for good targets for German bombs. Life in the US was very much restricted during WWII as well.
The restrictive measures currently in place in Ukraine happened because of the invasion, they were not in place before the invasion. I'm really surprised that educated people did not already know this. Edited by Easy Money - April 09 2024 at 11:34 |
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:37 | |||
yea, we are getting way off topic. Just one more point and i'll leave it at that.
When science plays the reduction game it boils down everything in existence to only 2 components. They are: 1- Energy 2- Consciousness According to science that's it, that's all that exists in creation. Metaphysics reduces it even further
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65258 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 11:42 | |||
No one seems to be putting two & two together, John, as if they think maybe it would be a nice change of pace to be bombed. The ignorance is incredible. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 12:11 | |||
Edited by SteveG - April 09 2024 at 13:22 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 12:14 | |||
Nice, keep the insults coming. I had no idea there was a war going on, thanks for letting me know. I will try to answer in an intelligent way later.
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 12:15 | |||
I just had to reply, this is high school science.. Energy
can and does exist independent of matter.
What are radio wavers or light? However, matter cannot and does not exist independent of energy;
it is energy. An analogy would be an ice
cube as matter and water as energy.
Water condenses to form ice, similar to that of energy condensing to form
matter. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 12:43 | |||
^ Actually it’s all quantum waves 😊
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 13:20 | |||
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 13:59 | |||
First of all, I'm really sorry for all the Ukrainian and Russian people who are suffering and dying by the thousands each month in this war. I'm quite critical of ALL the parties involved - the West/NATO, Russia, and also the Ukrainian government. I agree that of all the things Zelensky has done so far, prolonging martial law and thereby automatically postponing elections is neither controversial nor surprising, and I shouldn't have posted that as a singular criticism. However, looking at everything that has happened in Ukraine under his rule, and also considering that Ukraine wasn't high on the democracy index before the conflict began, I think it's safe to say that the country is far from being a role model for democracy, even by Western standards (which, as I've said, are deeply problematic themselves).
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - April 09 2024 at 14:18 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 14:18 | |||
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 14:41 | |||
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14728 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 14:44 | |||
It's not that easy. I had earlier already linked Pierre Duhem, but the point is better made on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duhem%E2%80%93Quine_thesis From there:
If you look at the history of science, progress was everything else than smooth. Old theories were supposedly refuted by some and defended by others. This is possible because "falsifying experiments" can be challenged based on challenging background assumptions, quality of measurement and the like. Both quantum and relativity theory had lots of highly qualified opponents in their time, even Newton had them. Furthermore, as I mentioned already earlier, there is in fact not much replication going on in science, and where it is, it often fails. Some stuff is replicated often and therefore of high reliability, because much in research and engineering relies on it, so people have to replicate it in order to have a proper basis for their own constructions. But this is a small minority of very well established material. It is very hard to reach an even remotely similar degree of reliability with anything new researchers come up with. Also it isn't enough to come up with experiments that would falsify a theory, they also need to be constructed in such a way that they could actually distinguish between the theory and alternative theories, i.e., in case they are in line with your theory, they need to go against such alternatives, as otherwise the experiment will not be informative either way. Finding such experiments is much harder.
Probably it was He Who Should Not Be Named.
This is not Ioannidis' point.
Edited by Lewian - April 09 2024 at 14:45 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21162 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 15:19 | |||
^ Yes, it was my point, going further than Ioannidis does. And it's just a hypothesis.
Your main point there is intriguing, and difficult to unwrap since it's actually several independent arguments "against" science. Ultimately, for real world applications, we are accepting scientific theories as valid if their practical application works, which is a combination of verifying the predictions following from the theory and failing to falsify it. You can argue that that is not good enough, I would disagree. Maybe we can agree on that?
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14728 |
Posted: April 09 2024 at 15:20 | |||
Also here I don't think it's "easy" except in very exceptional cases. People claim "facts" all the time, and the conditions for checking them are often not given. People can cite scientific papers or journalists day and night, but there may be mistakes and also manipulation. Often "proof" or at least "strong evidence" is claimed but may be fake. Even if somebody exists who is in principle in the position to check the facts, this is not normally the normal person reading or hearing the claim. They may believe certain "fact checkers", but these are no absolute authority either. If you want full freedom of speech, you've got to allow it all. And you've got to allow everyone to disagree with all of it. Now in fact I agree with Hugh Manatee that there is nowhere completely free speech, and chances are we don't want that. There are insults, hate speech, racism, you name it. Words are not innocent. And every democracy has to ask itself, do we grant full freedom to our enemies? Do we allow Holocaust denial for example? Are we fine with manipulators flooding the internet with their dross and using tolerance and freedom to their advantage? This regards both hate speech and misrepresentation of facts. And it's a fine line to tread as free speech and exchange should be a core value of democracy.
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