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Suno generated prog metal - are they any good?
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norzvic View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 06 2024 at 18:54
Hi people,

I am curious about the authenticity and social impact of AI music. I created a prog metal album using the latest version of Suno (v3). I experimented with some different prompts while primarily asking it to generate prog metal songs. Here's the link to the album: https://open.spotify.com/album/1QCZQ2uLHq4BR5f8mt0dCz

I am not qualified for creating a poll yet, but I would really like you opinions:

1) Do they sound prog metal at all? Which ones stand out in particular?

2) If no for 1), do they at least sound like today's popular metal music?

3) If no for 2), do they at least sound like classic metal music?

Thanks for the time in advance!! Look forward to hearing what you think.
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Points: 17845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2024 at 21:34
My initial thoughts on all this AI stuff is its pretty cool!!! But....when it comes to the arts, absolutely NOTHING can replace or replicate what the human mind can create. A computer has no heart, emotions or soul to try and create music that has those attributes.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

My initial thoughts on all this AI stuff is its pretty cool!!! But....when it comes to the arts, absolutely NOTHING can replace or replicate what the human mind can create. A computer has no heart, emotions or soul to try and create music that has those attributes.




While that's true that A.I. cannot generate human qualities, it's also true that the CIA and NSA launched social media in the early 2000s to train A.I. how to recognize the same patterns that lead to human emotions and behaviors. A.I. has been around for decades and they've only released it publicly recently. It is also rumored that A.I. can predict every possible combination of notes and is copyrighting every possible chord progression, melody, lyrical possibility, etc. While it hasn't quite gotten to this point yet, it is certainly heading that direction. The more humans use A.I. the more it learns how to imitate us and of course the fear is that it will totally replace us. I don't know what to think about that but it certainly is a game changer.



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norzvic View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norzvic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 09:07
Thanks for the comments, guys. I understand the frustration over AI. I am not an AI music engineer; just very curious about the quality of the music generation vs how music/genres are made and recognized. I have been a long time prog fan and I do have my own judgment about how these AI songs sound, but I would appreciate more expert opinions.

In fact, I agree that AI is struggling with art in many ways. The lack of human emotion is definitely one part of it, but I think another important part that pertains to a genre is that they also rely on communities like this, and I don't see it a meaningful statement to think that AI can, in some way, create a community like this. And this is also why I would appreciate your input: even if they do sound like prog, they can hardly be considered part of the prog community. 
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^ love that post, norzvic. Perhaps one day AI will advance in a way that it does create its own communities and derive pleasure from artistic AI works.

While AI is increasingly worrisome for me, and it had a negative effect on my work... Despite my negative feelings towards the use of such things, I did hide a post by a respondent for posting the displeasure in terms that are not allowed by our rules. I did not make the rule, but I am expected to enforce it. Avoid profanity and crude language/ swearing.

See rule number one here: CLICK

Quote No Vulgarity, profanity or bigotry. We ask all members to refrain from using "foul language ... Any deliberate and conscious attempt to "circumvent" or ignore this guideline will be seen as grounds for a warning to be issued, and may result in ejection from the site.



Edited by Logan - April 07 2024 at 10:13
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Points: 5353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 10:25
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ love that post, norzvic. Perhaps one day AI will advance in a way that it does create its own communities and derive pleasure from artistic AI works.

While AI is increasingly worrisome for me, and it had a negative effect on my work... Despite my negative feelings towards the use of such things, I did hide a post by a respondent for posting the displeasure in terms that are not allowed by our rules. I did not make the rule, but I am expected to enforce it. Avoid profanity and crude language/ swearing.

See rule number one here: CLICK

Quote No Vulgarity, profanity or bigotry. We ask all members to refrain from using "foul language ... Any deliberate and conscious attempt to "circumvent" or ignore this guideline will be seen as grounds for a warning to be issued, and may result in ejection from the site.

How pathetic.
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Points: 35748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 10:27
^ I've given you lots of leeway. You have been warned. We all are expected to have read and follow the rules if we participate. Any more infractions of the rules and you will be ejected.

And note that this is a privately owned website.

Edited by Logan - April 07 2024 at 10:29
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 10:34
You should consider adding rules that ban people who support AI generated content.

Edited by Hrychu - April 07 2024 at 10:34
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Points: 35748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 10:58
^ We deal with spammers who push kinds of content and programs. As for a rule on that, this is M@x's website and that would be his decision. You could try PMing him to petition him. And to change the rules on vulgarity/ swearing / hentai etc. if you like.
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Points: 27956 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2024 at 23:38
I was an active chess player for many years and the same concerns circulated in that community. AI would end chess competition but actually once Kasparov lost to Deep Blue life still just carried on as normal (apart for Kasparov whose own ego took a large dent). Are we concerned about AI taking over the arts or is it some other concern similar to ELP's Karn Evil 9 when a super computer makes a grab for power? 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I was an active chess player for many years and the same concerns circulated in that community. AI would end chess competition but actually once Kasparov lost to Deep Blue life still just carried on as normal (apart for Kasparov whose own ego took a large dent). Are we concerned about AI taking over the arts or is it some other concern similar to ELP's Karn Evil 9 when a super computer makes a grab for power? 
But people don't play chess to create something new, right? Artists on the other hand, do make their art to create something new. That's the difference. AI art is now used to make counterfeit products without real creative decisions made my artists. And also because anyone can type in a prompt, make an AI product and publish it online alongside real human art, and even sometimes pretend it's not AI or try to disguise the fact... that's terrible imo. The way AI art is made to "fake" the human element creeps me out.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

My initial thoughts on all this AI stuff is its pretty cool!!! But....when it comes to the arts, absolutely NOTHING can replace or replicate what the human mind can create. A computer has no heart, emotions or soul to try and create music that has those attributes.



Spot on!
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norzvic View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norzvic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2024 at 07:22
Thanks for the input, guys. I had no intention to start a fight about whether AI should be or is able to be competing with human artists in any respect. As most people here would agree, AI is heartless and emotionless by design, so they are not trying to "create music that has those attributes". 

My question, however, is that whether the imitation itself was good in the album I posted on the top. I would be happy to admit that good imitation doesn't mean good work, but if we may admit the imitation is good but the music is still "wrong", it basically suggests that imitation will not help AI to compete with human in any way. But if the imitation itself is not yet good, then there is still motivation for AI music engineers to go for better imitation. I would just appreciate the genuine opinion on it, which would help me think furthur about what could happen down the road. 
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Points: 50929 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2024 at 08:34
I am not an expert in prog metal and only listen to it on occasion. Having said that, I would say that this does sound like prog metal to me. The vocals sound sort of generic and more like they've been borrowed by current pop music. Of the two versions for each track, I thought the mix was better for those tracks labeled "alternative version." The non-alternative versions sounded like the vocals and synths were too high in the mix and drowning out the underlying rhythm - sort of giving it a "cloudy or muddy" effect if that makes sense.

Just my two cents. Again, I'm not an expert in this genre and I'm not going to comment on the AI/Human discussion because I don't really feel like talking about it right now.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

My initial thoughts on all this AI stuff is its pretty cool!!! But....when it comes to the arts, absolutely NOTHING can replace or replicate what the human mind can create. A computer has no heart, emotions or soul to try and create music that has those attributes.



While that's true that A.I. cannot generate human qualities, it's also true that the CIA and NSA launched social media in the early 2000s to train A.I. how to recognize the same patterns that lead to human emotions and behaviors. A.I. has been around for decades and they've only released it publicly recently. It is also rumored that A.I. can predict every possible combination of notes and is copyrighting every possible chord progression, melody, lyrical possibility, etc. While it hasn't quite gotten to this point yet, it is certainly heading that direction. The more humans use A.I. the more it learns how to imitate us and of course the fear is that it will totally replace us. I don't know what to think about that but it certainly is a game changer.

I don't know about all that CIA/NSA stuff, did Ben Gates tell you that's what he read in the Book of Secrets hidden in the Library of Congress? LOL
As you state......"A.I. the more it learns how to imitate us..." It might do this, but can never create real emotions in art. It may always beat us at chess and poker though.....
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