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Steve Wyzard View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 06 2024 at 13:43
I just saw the newly-released "Part Two" last night and was hugely impressed. Of course, the ending obviously sets up the possibility for a third movie based on Dune Messiah, which will lead to Lord of the Rings comparisons. As long as it's as well-made as these first two, I'll be in line to see it.

Most Frank Herbert readers consider the first Dune book to be by far the best one, and Villeneuve's 5+ hour adaptation into two films will unquestionably be considered definitive for a long time. There will be always be those who will complain that the screenplay excluded certain aspects/characters/storylines, while others will make much of the changes that were made. Still, this rendering is just so well done that I'm sure the overwhelming majority of those familiar with the book will be able to overlook any imperfections and appreciate the immense amount of work that was done to put this epic back into the public consciousness.

Setting aside the endless quibbling over casting (which I thought was above average), the absolute best thing about these movies is how smoothly and logically the story (which in the book is very dense and almost over-written) unfolds. I'll admit it's been decades since I've read the first book, but while watching these I was able to understand what was going on and remember the character inter-relationships without any problems. Unlike the Marvel/DC movies, these films always take themselves seriously, almost to the point of austerity. The beautiful visuals and world-building are truly awe-inspiring without being too CGI-overloaded, and Hans Zimmer's otherworldly scores are just the cherry on top.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on these two films, positive or negative?
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I thoroughly enjoyed the first film, but have not seen the second, but I am confident that it will be as faithful to the spirit of the novel as the first.

Of the novels, my favourite is God Emperor, number four in the sequence, a work of tortured genius and, I suspect, virtually impossible to film.
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Hi,

Saw the first film, but could never get a review done, and the only thing I did not care much about was the cave-in to some bits and pieces of the time and place, which I did not want to see done differently than the book! 

I have not decided to see the second film ... can't afford to go to the movie houses these days ... gosh, a small bucket of popcorn for $10 bux? Does anyone have a pocket pop'r so I can bring my own popcorn for $1.29?
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The first film impressed me, I will try to see the second one in theaters!
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Saw the first but not the second.
I originally saw the 1984 movie before ever reading the book so that became my first impression. I've also always been acutely aware of the limitations of books to movies and keep that firmly in mind when watching. By today's standards, the David Lynch version might seem campy or hokey. But back then, on the big screen, and with the talent of actors, it was great.
So that's my context.
Now, I remember feeling like Chalamet's character didn't have the same arrogance that MacLachlan's did, and I felt that as a young ('prince?'), Paul should have a bit more of that given the importance of his family and his desire to please his father. Current movie technology has elevated the perception of Arrakis to an impressive sight. I'm looking forward to the worms and battles.
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While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.
Thank you, I didn't want to say it out loud, but I agree. And likewise, I'm looking forward to Pt 2, and then seeing them back to back later on as one feature.

Maybe I'll re-watch Pt 1 this aft.
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I'm going to read the novel before I see the films. I think I'll wait until they're all out, that way I can take them in as one GIANT film, like 'The Lord of the Rings'
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.

Logan encapsulated my feelings exactly.  Originally, many theaters handed out a Xeroxed program to help the theatergoers familiarize themselves with brief descriptions of the characters.Wink
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.

Logan encapsulated my feelings exactly.  Originally, many theaters handed out a Xeroxed program to help the theatergoers familiarize themselves with brief descriptions of the characters.Wink
GUYS, GUYS, GUYS...it was THE 80's. Everything was 5h!t ! And let's be real, there have been plenty of films that might otherwise have been stellar if not for the interference of some bonehead studio suits.  Blame needs to be put where it deserves. I honestly wonder how Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune would have been received at the time, as grandiose as it's plan was. Sure, in retrospect, many of us salivate at a very thought of it. But if you haven't seen the Documentary, get it and watch it...with a critical eye. Somehow I feel his eyes were bigger than his stomach. That being said, so much of what he envisioned ended up in the world of Sci-Fi in other's projects for years to come.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

...
GUYS, GUYS, GUYS...it was THE 80's. Everything was 5h!t ! And let's be real, there have been plenty of films that might otherwise have been stellar if not for the interference of some bonehead studio suits.  Blame needs to be put where it deserves. 
...
Hi,

The only thing that was 5h!t in the 80's, was a lot of American film, since the film companies maintained their control, despite Robert Altman fooling them, and the record companies had just bought all the FM stations, and took the "new music" out of the listening ears around the country.

But, by that time, a lot of college stations and other non-affiliated stations managed to push through and the music never died ... it continued and then was picked up by the Internet full force as soon as 1990's hit.

The issue, we do not realize, is that the same companies that own the studios were the same companies that bought out all the radio stations, with different names of course so you wouldn't know the difference ... but someone had the money to spend!

The hardest part, in AMERICA, is the expense, and how many, or how much, is needed to make a film. The same film made in Spain or France would cost, maybe 20%, or 30% of the total cost, and have far more "freedom" of interpretation than in America where respect for literature and the arts is not a favorite thing of these big companies ... they were the same folks that voted out all the money that went to PBS for broadcasting too much material that was "too left sided" to make the government look bad ... and when a big time LA newspaper even stated that I, Claudius was the perfect example by making government look petty and crazy, then it became open hunting season ... right away, stations like KMET got taken down over night and replaced by washing machine music called  new something or other ... and did anyone get mad? NOPE. It was ignored.

Jodorowsky's idea would have made ... probably a bigger mess than what ended up being done ... don't forget that his theater group was banned in Mexico City because it was wide open experimental theater and some players were even having sex. He even explains a scene in El Topo that would have made the making of this film a serious issue for American money controlling the investment. Not to mention that Jodorowsky's style of improvisation and free form, would have given us a mixed bag of things that would be really hard for us to discuss, specially if we knew the books well. It would have looked worse than Antonioni's film (which he "disowned") because of American money intervention, to insist on a "story", instead of an "event" which was Antonioni's style. And the "story" created so much garbage that made the "hippies" look even worse, and it was a perfect example of media manipulation of an audience that hated them hippies along with a lot of American media, that still thought that the pink paper background was the real image they wanted to see, not their sons and daughters. DUNE, in Jodorowsky's hands would be something that we don't want to handle, and the film would have more background material from the novel to help get the story out about each character. But Hollywood, always thought a whole hour of film could be taken out with one LINE in the film! And we still think that way!

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

...
I honestly wonder how Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune would have been received at the time, as grandiose as it's plan was. 
...
But if you haven't seen the Documentary, get it and watch it...with a critical eye. Somehow I feel his eyes were bigger than his stomach. 
...

My bigger concern about this is how he would have been disciplined and affected by the studio mannequins running around getting upset about each and every line, and too much breast showing ... right there ... something that Jodorowsky probably would not have given a damn about. And it would have made sense, unless you were using some of those colored glasses sold in some churches to support the graven image! WinkWink

I tell you who I think would be interesting ... Terry Gilliam, and make more than half this film a "cartoon" for most images so we can get the worms and the desert image as the dream images they are meant to be ... the spice is INSIDE US, not on a distant planet ready for farming. Another director that might be interesting would be Lars Von Trier, but what he would do with it, might be such a color mess up and mesh that we would never enjoy sitting through it ... 


Edited by moshkito - March 08 2024 at 06:24
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Saw the first film, but could never get a review done, and the only thing I did not care much about was the cave-in to some bits and pieces of the time and place, which I did not want to see done differently than the book! 

I have not decided to see the second film ... can't afford to go to the movie houses these days ... gosh, a small bucket of popcorn for $10 bux? Does anyone have a pocket pop'r so I can bring my own popcorn for $1.29?

It's precisely the popcorn eaters (or other noise-makers) that keep me out of cinemas. Why spend that amount of money and then be constantly annoyed? Plus the sound is much better at home anyway. 
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.

Logan encapsulated my feelings exactly.  Originally, many theaters handed out a Xeroxed program to help the theatergoers familiarize themselves with brief descriptions of the characters.Wink
GUYS, GUYS, GUYS...it was THE 80's. Everything was 5h!t ! And let's be real, there have been plenty of films that might otherwise have been stellar if not for the interference of some bonehead studio suits.  Blame needs to be put where it deserves. I honestly wonder how Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune would have been received at the time, as grandiose as it's plan was. Sure, in retrospect, many of us salivate at a very thought of it. But if you haven't seen the Documentary, get it and watch it...with a critical eye. Somehow I feel his eyes were bigger than his stomach. That being said, so much of what he envisioned ended up in the world of Sci-Fi in other's projects for years to come.

80's was great decade for sci-fi
Blade Runner
Alien2
Total Recall
Robocop
John Carpenter's The Thing
The Abyss (think that one just snuck in)
The Terminator
A lot of this was pre CGI as well so it wasn't easy makimng some of these films, the trials and tribulations that were put in the documentaries were often better than the films themselves admittedly!
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

While David Lynch disowned/distanced himself from the 1980s film due to studio interference, I love it., cheese and all.   Strangely perhaps, it's been my main comfort food/ comfort blanket film. The Villeneuve may be more faithful to the Herbert material, but I found part one boring.  Sill plan to see part 2, and I expect to appreciate it more, and maybe watching both part together will increase my satisfaction.

Logan encapsulated my feelings exactly.  Originally, many theaters handed out a Xeroxed program to help the theatergoers familiarize themselves with brief descriptions of the characters.Wink
GUYS, GUYS, GUYS...it was THE 80's. Everything was 5h!t ! And let's be real, there have been plenty of films that might otherwise have been stellar if not for the interference of some bonehead studio suits.  Blame needs to be put where it deserves. I honestly wonder how Alejandro Jodorowsky's Dune would have been received at the time, as grandiose as it's plan was. Sure, in retrospect, many of us salivate at a very thought of it. But if you haven't seen the Documentary, get it and watch it...with a critical eye. Somehow I feel his eyes were bigger than his stomach. That being said, so much of what he envisioned ended up in the world of Sci-Fi in other's projects for years to come.

80's was great decade for sci-fi
Blade Runner
Alien2
Total Recall
Robocop
John Carpenter's The Thing
The Abyss (think that one just snuck in)
The Terminator
A lot of this was pre CGI as well so it wasn't easy makimng some of these films, the trials and tribulations that were put in the documentaries were often better than the films themselves admittedly!

All good films in their own way, but 7 films in a decade. Not a great average.
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Not every one has the time to list hundreds, or broad interests, I could given time. There are a huge numbers of films I love from the 80s, most of them are not from the US or sci-fi/ fantasy genre but a lot of them are. A lot of my favourites are Art House.

This is poll I made for some of my favourite cinema fantastiuque films from the 80s, but this is just a fraction of what I appreciate from the 80s. https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114957

Brazil, Time Bandits, the Shining and The Dark Crystal are really special to me in that list, and while I could list a great many given time, Zhang Yimous's Red Sorghum from 1988 was one of the films that made me pursue film studies (did not get my degree in it because the university pulled the program).

Edited by Logan - March 08 2024 at 16:14
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^ Brazil and Time Bandits are great. A few more I could have added would be The Fly, Predator and Sean Connery's Outland (a loose remake of the western High Noon). On top of that Mad Max 2, Scanners, Escape From New York and The Running Man were also decent. Fancy a sci-fi parody then Spaceballs is up there along with the campy fun of Flash Gordon.
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^ From my list I linked to, The FLy, Scanners, and Mad Max 2. Outland, Escape From New York and The Running Man are some faves, and surprised I did not add those. Those are weird comfort food films for me which I have watched many times (several times each in the last six months alone), and like Lynch's Dune, I often return to them. Outland, by the way, was one of the very first videos I watched an my parents new VCR. I either saw that or Midnight Express first (I would say Midnight Express is the still better movie, but Outland has a special place with me). I was talking to a relative about The Running Man who was claiming it was poor, but I've always enjoyed it (it is funny and so many memorable quotes that I use regularly.   I eat a lot of sushi, but not so much quivering bloody sushi). Especially having Richard Dawson as Killian (he's lying to you) was inspired casting, and Schwarzenegger is so charismatic in it. It hits the spot.

One reason why the 80s appeals so much to me is because I became a teenager during that decade, and it is a special time for my life. A lot of people dismiss the arts generally in the 80s, but I also feel commonly like if people are dismissive then they just have not broadly explored enough from the time, their tastes and/or knowledge is too limited, and their prejudice is getting in the way. I have seen complaints that music in the 80s sucks, and like those who claim otherwise are either delusional or lying (quite an offensive attitude). There is so much I like from the 80s, like so many other decades.
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Saw Dune part 1...it was ok...bit boring at times. I hope part 2 is better.
I actually liked Lynch's version....yes it was campy at times but it was entertaining and strange.
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The first movie was OK, but nothing spectacular methinks. Hope that the sequel is better.
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ From my list I linked to, The FLy, Scanners, and Mad Max 2. Outland, Escape From New York and The Running Man are some faves, and surprised I did not add those. Those are weird comfort food films for me which I have watched many times (several times each in the last six months alone), and like Lynch's Dune, I often return to them. Outland, by the way, was one of the very first videos I watched an my parents new VCR. I either saw that or Midnight Express first (I would say Midnight Express is the still better movie, but Outland has a special place with me). I was talking to a relative about The Running Man who was claiming it was poor, but I've always enjoyed it (it is funny and so many memorable quotes that I use regularly.   I eat a lot of sushi, but not so much quivering bloody sushi). Especially having Richard Dawson as Killian (he's lying to you) was inspired casting, and Schwarzenegger is so charismatic in it. It hits the spot.

One reason why the 80s appeals so much to me is because I became a teenager during that decade, and it is a special time for my life. A lot of people dismiss the arts generally in the 80s, but I also feel commonly like if people are dismissive then they just have not broadly explored enough from the time, their tastes and/or knowledge is too limited, and their prejudice is getting in the way. I have seen complaints that music in the 80s sucks, and like those who claim otherwise are either delusional or lying (quite an offensive attitude). There is so much I like from the 80s, like so many other decades.

I had a slighly odd experience of going to see Outland at a cinema in Newport, South Wales. I had a day to kill before college started so purchased a ticket for an afternoon sitting. It turned out I was the only person in there! Enjoyed the film and felt obliged to buy an ice cream off the lady who came out especially for me (this was before multiplex cinemas became a thing in the UK, they were still very old fashioned traditional cinema houses even in the early 80's)

I generally disliked the 80's for many reasons but occasionally something interesting happened out of almost nowhere. For instance the TV series A Very Peculiar Practice seemed to capture the zeitgeist of the time. The UK was decaying and in turmoil as we moved further into Thatchers divided Britain. The popular MTV driven and plastic produced music was well out of line with the reality of life as far as I was concerned. I liked Suzanne Vega and Kate Bush but most well known bands just sucked balls! The fact that U2 became so popular in that decade is enough of an inditement of it's music as anything. OK the likes of Tears For Fears and China Crisis were good and a few other arty pop bands were fine but pop music was just not my thing. Roll on the 90's!!
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