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Moyan View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 01 2024 at 15:28
Steve Hackett was crucial to Genesis, in my opinion; too bad the other members of the band tend to disregard or reject a lot of his excellent advice back then. His masterwork record, "Voyage of the Acolyte," is evidence of that. All of my favourite Genesis records feature Hackett; the interplay between him and Tony Bank's keyboards was fairly essential for the band, and his absence had an immediate and noticeable effect on "And Then There Were Three," as that album was a significant creative step-down for Genesis.

Hackett is, in a sense, a one-man nostalgia show for the years 1971–1977. Conversely, he has been putting out new solo stuff since 1975.  

While bandmates who were more assertive and had an alpha attitude towards making music overshadowed Hackett at the time, he was an underappreciated musician whose contribution was essential in propelling the band's output from the 1970s into the upper echelons of British progressive rock music.

Steve Hackett's latest conceptual studio album, "The Circus and the Nightwhale," released in February 2024, grandly honours more than 50 years of excellent and eclectic progressive music.

Maybe it's time to accept Steve as he is: the greatest solo artist in prog.
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NO denying Steve's impact on prog and his dedication to the craft over all the decades but best prog solo artist of all time? Not in my book. I find his solo albums patchy and there are a lot of solo artists of classic prog who probably would win the "best" distinction if voted on.

Peter Hammill has released 46 solo albums with great consistency years before Hackett even got started and of course Hammill has led VdGG since the 1960s whereas Hackett was only in Genesis for a relatively short time in comparison.

Robert Fripp might qualify as well not only for his 20 plus solo albums and collaborations but for keeping King Crimson relevant since the beginning as well as participating in dozens of other projects.

Personally i don't think anyone is the "best" and really don't need anyone to rank higher than anyone else.

They all contributed to the greater prog universe and it would all be unthinkable without any of these masters.

Hackett brilliant of course but best? Nah. Definitely a top 10 though.


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TenYearsAfter View Drop Down
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I think it is too personal to name the greatest prog rock solo artist but for me Steve Hackett is one of the best, due to his variety: the use of volume pedal, slide, tremolo and tapping on the electric guitar, and tender romantic runs on the classical guitar. But also his inventive musical ideas, and emotional approach, an element that many hailed prog rock solo artists lack. I have seen him solo many times in the Seventies and Eighties, he could compete with every top Classic Prog band. And in the last decade his solo gigs featuring the best from 70-77 showcases his amazing talents, as a guitar player, and composer. Wow!

Edited by TenYearsAfter - March 01 2024 at 16:28
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No, he is not. A lot of product, but much of it mediocre.
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I believe it is the duty of all Genesis fans to thank Steve Hackett for his magnificent "Genesis Revisited" project and his efforts in revitalising classic Genesis songs. It was Steve Hackett's eleventh studio album, and it was released in 1996. Maestro also released "Genesis Revisited II" in 2012 as his twenty-second studio album. As one of the songwriters, he was undoubtedly aware of the risks involved in taking on a project like "Genesis Revisited." Hackett did, however, a truly great job, and, in my humble opinion, both "Genesis Revisited" albums are deserving of five stars each.
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Steve Hackett and Tony Banks wrote "Entangled," one of the most beautiful songs in prog-rock history. It features 12-string acoustic guitars delivered by Hackett, Banks, and Mike Rutherford, along with a fantastic synth solo by Banks and a 'tron in the last section. The band performed the song live to promote the album in 1976 as part of their tour. Hackett gave a brief introduction to the song, stating that the lyrics he wrote were based on a painting by Kim Poor, who would eventually become his wife. 
The final minute of the song is filled with a haunting beauty that perfectly captures the quintessential significance of Hackett and Banks' interplay for Genesis sound. 
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This is a brilliant set from 1980 in Montreux. Here, you can see Steve clearly establishing his own distinctive style of composition and playing. Great performance and a very original sound. I, for one, never had any doubts about his ability to succeed on his own. Steve is indeed an extraordinarily talented songwriter and masterful guitarist.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Peter Hammill has released 46 solo albums with great consistency years before Hackett even got started and of course Hammill has led VdGG since the 1960s whereas Hackett was only in Genesis for a relatively short time in comparison.

Robert Fripp might qualify as well not only for his 20 plus solo albums and collaborations but for keeping King Crimson relevant since the beginning as well as participating in dozens of other projects.
Unlike Robert Fripp and Peter Hammill, Steve Hackett never played post-punk or new wave music. There was no such discontunity in Hackett's oevre. Even his criminally underrated ("commercial") 1981 album, "Cured," is progressive rock. He also touched on many things and changed styles during his long career, of course, but in comparison with the aforementioned two, Hackett's changes were in a rather harmonic and always "proggy" way.
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Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
I am a fan though and played Surrender Of Silence loud last night. The music is pompous and grandiose to the extreme. He and Keith Emerson should have worked together. It would have been epic prog and off the scale.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."

Vangelis in the seventies was an amazing eclectic artist that pushed the boundaries of electronic music when he eventually settled on that genre as his main interest. Essentially he was a classical composer and later albums like El Greco and Mythodea showed perhaps his true passion. PA made a mistake in not including him in the PE genre but apparently that more down to a member of that team (no longer active) who took it upon himself to remove Vangelis from that sub genre. Still a sore point with me but hey ho. Vangelis was as progressive as anyone in the 70's imo.

I don't agree with your assessment of those Mike Oldfield albums. Sure, you will find many that agree with you but I regard Platinum as a strong album. It still has a side long piece but without that myriad of acoustic instruments, he adapted his music for a rock band format partly so he could do touring without the massive cost of a large ensemble of musicians. I enjoy all his albums up to 1987''s Islands album which was very weak. From this point on his output became patchy but cerrtainly he received massive praise for Songs Of Distant Earth and more recent Return To Ommadawn. I'm not a fan of Man On The Rocks but some were. Tr3s Lunas and Light + Shade were definitely more on the electronic side of things. He lived in Ibiza for a while and was moved to do a few chill out albums to balance out the frenetic partying around the night club scene of that island. He went a 'little mad' by his own admission. I do listen to those albums occasionally. Neither is a total write off. I also enjoy Voyager with it's celtic themes and the guitar based Guitars (obviously!). He was never reliant on electronic instruments as you assert but chose to use whatever was at his disposal. Unlike many solo artists he was not at all 'collaborative' deciding he would rather develop his music on his own terms. I think he has done rather well with this. 
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Steve Hackett was crucial to Genesis, in my opinion; too bad the other members of the band tend to disregard or reject a lot of his excellent advice back then. His masterwork record, "Voyage of the Acolyte," is evidence of that. All of my favourite Genesis records feature Hackett; the interplay between him and Tony Bank's keyboards was fairly essential for the band, and his absence had an immediate and noticeable effect on "And Then There Were Three," as that album was a significant creative step-down for Genesis.

Welcome to PA, and thanks for the interesting thread!  

You raise an interesting point, which is that relatively few prog super-stars seem to thrive outside of a group setting.  Steve Howe, for one, has a rather thin resume of solo albums, and while Bob Fripp has a slew of material, is is smeared across many genres ranging from punk to his own Frippertronics and "sound-scapes".  

I look forward to the discussion on this topic!  Cheers, Charles


Edited by cstack3 - March 03 2024 at 02:45
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."

Vangelis in the seventies was an amazing eclectic artist that pushed the boundaries of electronic music when he eventually settled on that genre as his main interest. Essentially he was a classical composer and later albums like El Greco and Mythodea showed perhaps his true passion. PA made a mistake in not including him in the PE genre but apparently that more down to a member of that team (no longer active) who took it upon himself to remove Vangelis from that sub genre.
For me, Progarchives' "prog-related" section looks just good for Vangelis because he was prog-rock in his early phase only.
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."

Vangelis in the seventies was an amazing eclectic artist that pushed the boundaries of electronic music when he eventually settled on that genre as his main interest. Essentially he was a classical composer and later albums like El Greco and Mythodea showed perhaps his true passion. PA made a mistake in not including him in the PE genre but apparently that more down to a member of that team (no longer active) who took it upon himself to remove Vangelis from that sub genre.
For me, Progarchives' "prog-related" section looks just good for Vangelis because he was prog-rock in his early phase only.

 
Define 'early phase'. Most prog bands and artists were only prog in their early phase and then became something more commercial sounding, there are exceptions like King Crimson and VDGG but they are not the rule.

Earth, The Dragon, Hypothesis, Spiral, Heaven and Hell, Albedo 0.39, La Fete Sauvage and Beabourg all comfortably fit into some sub genre of prog whether it be Krautrock, Experimental, Symph or Electronic. The more recognised Vangelis sound that was to prevail on a number albums emerged fully with China but he still had time to produce some unique EM albums such as Invisible Connections and Mask. By my reckoning he has more than 10 albums that fully fit full blown prog of some kind or other and it's not as if there isn't a high level of creativity on his 90's albums such as Oceanic and Voices albeit a more 'safer' approach. You also have the first 3 albums with Jon Anderson that could fit and the 2 albums with Irene Papas that could easily fit Crossover prog. His prog credentials are well stacked by this point. 


Edited by richardh - March 04 2024 at 16:10
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Steve Hackett is no doubt a fine guitarist and writer. According to Tony Banks ...Steve Hackett and Phil Collins were junior members and had not the writing experience of himself, Rutherford and Gabriel. By the time Hackett and Collins began progressing in New areas Gabriel decided to leave.

Steve Hackett had blossomed as a writer with Voyage Of The Acolyte. Steve Hackett's contributions to Wind And Wuthering impressed Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford. Although it is to my understanding that other pieces Hackett had written during this period in time were rejected by Banks and Rutherford.

Supposedly the instrumental "Please Don't Touch" was turned down or decided against by the band . Supposedly it would have appeared on side 2 of the LP ...however the band chose to work on "Blood On The Rooftops" and "In That Quiet Earth" ..putting all of their energy into that and disregarding "Please Don't Touch" completely.

I have personally tried to imagine what "Please Don't Touch" would have sounded like in sync with the other tracks on Wind And Wuthering. Would it have spoiled the flow of the album? Who knows? Also there was a rumor that Phil Collins said that he couldn't get behind it. Although "Wot Gorilla " seemed to have the same groove. If that's true then how was he able to get behind that and not Please Don't Touch?

Some stuff leaked through the press back then and presented the idea that Tony Banks was difficult to work with. In several interviews with Banks he claims that he really missed Steve Hackett after his departure. He also praises Steve Hackett as a player and states that he was very technical and challenging..and that Hackett and Collins had amazing technique. It's difficult to understand..but I do believe that Banks respects Hackett's musicianship.

I saw Steve Hackett in Philadelphia for the Darktown tour. He wore sunglasses throughout the entire performance. At one point people began screaming at him . Pretty brutal stuff...for example.."Genesis suck!!!" "They are commercial garbage!!" "Steve..you are the real Genesis!!" " Phil Collins is a commercial idiot!!" Steve Hackett by this point of the show is just staring into the crowd and very still. His sunglasses sliding down his nose and he's shaking his head. In reality Genesis are his friends. He must have felt like he was being put on the spot.

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - March 04 2024 at 18:55
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."

Vangelis in the seventies was an amazing eclectic artist that pushed the boundaries of electronic music when he eventually settled on that genre as his main interest. Essentially he was a classical composer and later albums like El Greco and Mythodea showed perhaps his true passion. PA made a mistake in not including him in the PE genre but apparently that more down to a member of that team (no longer active) who took it upon himself to remove Vangelis from that sub genre.
For me, Progarchives' "prog-related" section looks just good for Vangelis because he was prog-rock in his early phase only.

 
Define 'early phase'. Most prog bands and artists were only prog in their early phase and then became something more commercial sounding, there are exceptions like King Crimson and VDGG but they are not the rule.

Earth, The Dragon, Hypothesis, Spiral, Heaven and Hell, Albedo 0.39, La Fete Sauvage and Beabourg all comfortably fit into some sub genre of prog whether it be Krautrock, Experimental, Symph or Electronic. The more recognised Vangelis sound that was to prevail on a number albums emerged fully with China but he still had time to produce some unique EM albums such as Invisible Connections and Mask. By my reckoning he has more than 10 albums that fully fit full blown prog of some kind or other and it's not as if there isn't a high level of creativity on his 90's albums such as Oceanic and Voices albeit a more 'safer' approach. You also have the first 3 albums with Jon Anderson that could fit and the 2 albums with Irene Papas that could easily fit Crossover prog. His prog credentials are well stacked by this point. 
You listed Vangelis' solo albums after that early Aphrodite's Child chapter, but you didn't mention the most prog-rock one, which was "See You Later." Anyway, I fully agree with those who put Vangelis in that PA "prog-related" section. As far as possible, it is important that we take it out of the argy-bargy of this debate.
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Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Steve Hackett is no doubt a fine guitarist and writer. According to Tony Banks ...Steve Hackett and Phil Collins were junior members and had not the writing experience of himself, Rutherford and Gabriel. By the time Hackett and Collins began progressing in New areas Gabriel decided to leave.

Steve Hackett had blossomed as a writer with Voyage Of The Acolyte. Steve Hackett's contributions to Wind And Wuthering impressed Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford. Although it is to my understanding that other pieces Hackett had written during this period in time were rejected by Banks and Rutherford.

Supposedly the instrumental "Please Don't Touch" was turned down or decided against by the band . Supposedly it would have appeared on side 2 of the LP ...however the band chose to work on "Blood On The Rooftops" and "In That Quiet Earth" ..putting all of their energy into that and disregarding "Please Don't Touch" completely.

I have personally tried to imagine what "Please Don't Touch" would have sounded like in sync with the other tracks on Wind And Wuthering. Would it have spoiled the flow of the album? Who knows? Also there was a rumor that Phil Collins said that he couldn't get behind it. Although "Wot Gorilla " seemed to have the same groove. If that's true then how was he able to get behind that and not Please Don't Touch?

Some stuff leaked through the press back then and presented the idea that Tony Banks was difficult to work with. In several interviews with Banks he claims that he really missed Steve Hackett after his departure. He also praises Steve Hackett as a player and states that he was very technical and challenging..and that Hackett and Collins had amazing technique. It's difficult to understand..but I do believe that Banks respects Hackett's musicianship.

I saw Steve Hackett in Philadelphia for the Darktown tour. He wore sunglasses throughout the entire performance. At one point people began screaming at him . Pretty brutal stuff...for example.."Genesis suck!!!" "They are commercial garbage!!" "Steve..you are the real Genesis!!" " Phil Collins is a commercial idiot!!" Steve Hackett by this point of the show is just staring into the crowd and very still. His sunglasses sliding down his nose and he's shaking his head. In reality Genesis are his friends. He must have felt like he was being put on the spot.

That reminds me of the first gigs of Genesis with Phil Collins as the lead singer, suddenly a Peter Gabriel fan appears in the front row, dressed as the Watcher Of The Skies, saying nothing but acting like Peter Gabriel, pretty scary for Phil!
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mike Oldfield and Vangelis about equal
Then Hackett
Vangelis was an electronic music master who did a lot of ambient, experimental, classical, new-age, and film music, but he was progressive rock only in the beginning of his career when he was the mastermind of Aphrodite's Child.

In addition to his amazing records like "Tubular Bells," "Hergest Ridge," "Ommadawn," and "Amarok," Mike Oldfield is sadly also known for his crappy album called "Platinum." Consider his 1999 album "The Millennium Bell," which both critics and fans found to be lacking in quality. The overall problem with Oldfield's discography is its excessive dependence on electronic instruments and lack of cohesiveness. One example is the terrible electronic chaos that is "Light and Shade."

Vangelis in the seventies was an amazing eclectic artist that pushed the boundaries of electronic music when he eventually settled on that genre as his main interest. Essentially he was a classical composer and later albums like El Greco and Mythodea showed perhaps his true passion. PA made a mistake in not including him in the PE genre but apparently that more down to a member of that team (no longer active) who took it upon himself to remove Vangelis from that sub genre.
For me, Progarchives' "prog-related" section looks just good for Vangelis because he was prog-rock in his early phase only.

 
Define 'early phase'. Most prog bands and artists were only prog in their early phase and then became something more commercial sounding, there are exceptions like King Crimson and VDGG but they are not the rule.

Earth, The Dragon, Hypothesis, Spiral, Heaven and Hell, Albedo 0.39, La Fete Sauvage and Beabourg all comfortably fit into some sub genre of prog whether it be Krautrock, Experimental, Symph or Electronic. The more recognised Vangelis sound that was to prevail on a number albums emerged fully with China but he still had time to produce some unique EM albums such as Invisible Connections and Mask. By my reckoning he has more than 10 albums that fully fit full blown prog of some kind or other and it's not as if there isn't a high level of creativity on his 90's albums such as Oceanic and Voices albeit a more 'safer' approach. You also have the first 3 albums with Jon Anderson that could fit and the 2 albums with Irene Papas that could easily fit Crossover prog. His prog credentials are well stacked by this point. 
You listed Vangelis' solo albums after that early Aphrodite's Child chapter, but you didn't mention the most prog-rock one, which was "See You Later." Anyway, I fully agree with those who put Vangelis in that PA "prog-related" section. As far as possible, it is important that we take it out of the argy-bargy of this debate.

no argy bargy just logic and clear thinking about an incredible artist and musician
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Hi,

I have my reservations, and I do not like to post on "best" of this or that.

However, I find that there are a lot of "solo" artists, that do not exactly fit as "solo", and that the music they make is basically a copy of everything else they do, and while they show (maybe!!!) a different/nice side, in the end, I find them lacking a bit. Of all the "solo" albums, from GENESIS (for example) no one comes close to Anthony Phillips, in terms of ability, and conceptualization and design of the work he does ... he simply makes the word "solo" sound stupid!

I don't know how I feel about Steve Howe. I like his excursions to somewhere, but often, specially after TFTO, they seemed to be just loud moments, and not quite as exciting, for my ears. When I compare him to others that went ... like Michael Karoli, and even John Weinzierl (AD2) whose specially impressive work is not ever mentioned, even after the incredible lead/solo non-stop in the title piece "YETI" ... that is almost too much, and sort of (SORT OFFFFFF!!!) inspired by a Jon McLaughlin type of playing, that you can not project where it is going at all ... but it does! This is FAR AND AWAY from the type of "solo" that is made out of the chord progressions and designs, which, to me, is not quite a solo, but an exercise in learning more about the chord, and more often than not lacks the emotion to be worth a mention. For example, I do not consider Eric Clapton a good solo artist, even with the early days on Cream. But his "fame" superseded it all.

The biggest issue, here, in discussing "best" is that there is no definition for it, and someone doing this to classical music, as opposed to the simplistic rock song, or even some jazz work, makes it almost impossible to define a "really good" player ... that works his music better with his inventiveness ... and in this area, when you listen to Toni McPhee in his Groundhogs days, his use of effects on top of his solos is an amazing thing, but he is not heard, or appreciated, next to the many "more famous" and "heard" solo artists out there.

I like SH, but he is not better than Anthony PHillips, in terms of totality of work and explorations of his medium ... he has done soundtracks, jingles, folk, and so many other things, as to make some of the "solo" folks listed just repeating themselves. It reminds me of Jorma Kaukonen, in his early days of going all over the place and so many pieces for HOT TUNA being different with another solo ... but you never heard the old bootlegs by Hot Tuna, to imagine the same piece ... with a different solo in it ... and ... yeah ... he was crazy if it could be said, but one should also admit ... that's amazingly insane. Another example, is Jan Akkerman who sounds good in Focus in the early days soloing on top of everything else, but in his solo albums, it is all about the "song" and none of his "solos" stand up or can compare to his early work ... it's like ... I'm too famous for a solo now ... my idea of Steve Howe, now, and many others.


Edited by moshkito - March 05 2024 at 07:46
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