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Is Prog really a genre?

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Awesoreno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2024 at 22:43
But what IS music?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 00:26
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

But what IS music?

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:13
^ I had that argument once. It didn't end well.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 06:13
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

"Is Prog really a genre?". 
If Prog is short for Progressive Rock, not the way PA uses this term, but it can be defined as a genre, like the way RYM does it. 
what's wrong with the PA definition?

It makes much more sense to me to call the sum of all the PA sub-genres "progressive music", and I don't see it as a genre.

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GUD77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 14:10
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Of course prog is a genre. Thats just a basic answer but I think a lot of people generally talk about the idea of genres as a box. This artist fits into that box and this album fits into that, whatever. But there are people out there who dont subscribe to the idea of a box which is what I spontaneously thought reading this discussion.

Ginger Baker is one of those musicians who didnt like to label his music psychedelic rock, jazz or blues rock even tho the box seemed to fit. I think its a more abstract concept but I defnitely see the idea that something just "feels" like prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 19:04
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I use genres to narrow down the range of possibilities when I'm looking for new music. Not always, sometimes I don't pay any attention. But there are times when I'm looking for something specific, or maybe I'm tired of certain styles or genres due to overexposure. Avant is a good example - sometimes I'm drawn to it, sometimes the idea of dissonant madness doesn't seem right and I'm looking for melodic stuff instead.

I think genres can be useful IF you see them as something optional, focus on inclusiveness instead of divisiveness, and not take them too seriously.

It's my understanding that music genres in general are a media invention that helped music stores classify their shelves so that people could be shepherded more easily towards music they might be more interested in purchasing.

Sort of an early version of "If you like that, you might also like this".

It does become somewhat ridiculous to me when genres get split into "sub-genres" and "sub-sub-genres" and so on and on...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 19:17
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I use genres to narrow down the range of possibilities when I'm looking for new music. Not always, sometimes I don't pay any attention. But there are times when I'm looking for something specific, or maybe I'm tired of certain styles or genres due to overexposure. Avant is a good example - sometimes I'm drawn to it, sometimes the idea of dissonant madness doesn't seem right and I'm looking for melodic stuff instead.

I think genres can be useful IF you see them as something optional, focus on inclusiveness instead of divisiveness, and not take them too seriously.

It's my understanding that music genres in general are a media invention that helped music stores classify their shelves so that people could be shepherded more easily towards music they might be more interested in purchasing.

Sort of an early version of "If you like that, you might also like this".

It does become somewhat ridiculous to me when genres get split into "sub-genres" and "sub-sub-genres" and so on and on...


What's more ridiculous is when you have no idea what you are looking at and have no idea if it's something you really want to hear or not.

I think genre tagging is one of the most economical ways to sift through thousands of albums to find something that fits your tastes.

You can always ignore them but many of us LOVE them.

So what if it was a marketing scheme? Modern music is a marketing scheme.

Music used to be only reserved for events and services in many cultures.

I'm happy to be living in a day and age where music and its genres are limitless!!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 00:14
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

It does become somewhat ridiculous to me when genres get split into "sub-genres" and "sub-sub-genres" and so on and on...


Not that ridiculous actually, the subgenres get more specific and descriptive which helps the listener.
For example, I like some doom metal, but not extreme doom, drone doom (or stoner metal if I dislike the vocals). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 01:01
^ I think that the usefulness of genres varies greatly, some are more descriptive and make more intuitive sense than others. Take "Swancore" as an example. What does that sound like? Swans? It's not descriptive at all. "Gothenburg Metal" is another example of a non-descriptive genre, it only makes sense to those who are already familiar with the key releases. On the other hand, genres like "Funeral Doom" or "Psychedelia" make perfect sense, even those who have never heard a single release get a vague idea of what to expect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 01:19
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I think that the usefulness of genres varies greatly, some are more descriptive and make more intuitive sense than others. Take "Swancore" as an example. What does that sound like? Swans? It's not descriptive at all. "Gothenburg Metal" is another example of a non-descriptive genre, it only makes sense to those who are already familiar with the key releases. On the other hand, genres like "Funeral Doom" or "Psychedelia" make perfect sense, even those who have never heard a single release get a vague idea of what to expect.

Metalheads know what Gothenburg metal is. It's also called melodic death metal. 
I bet swancore has another name, doesn't it? LOL.  But it seems this genre has its fans, so I guess it's a thing. 
(progressive post-hardcore)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 01:28
^ No, metalheads don't know what Gothenburg metal is UNTIL they've listened to it or read a description. I live (sort of) near Gothenburg, so I can tell from first-hand experience that Gothenburg metal does not sound "like Gothenburg". LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 01:29
^^ And yes, "melodic death metal" is a much better way to describe that music. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 01:34
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ No, metalheads don't know what Gothenburg metal is UNTIL they've listened to it or read a description. I live (sort of) near Gothenburg, so I can tell from first-hand experience that Gothenburg metal does not sound "like Gothenburg". LOL

Like I said, it's melodic death metal, so everyone knows what they're in for. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 02:21
^ You either didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand ... well, whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 02:48
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ You either didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand ... well, whatever.

I get it, "Gothenburg metal" is a term that does not help and needs further looking into what it is. 

There are quite a few genre & subgenre names I came across that make me (and I'm sure others) scratch my head:

footwork ShockedLOL
dungeon synth
downtempo
slowcore
future garage
breakcore
glitch pop

and many others... Confused


Edited by Cristi - February 26 2024 at 02:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 02:54
^ Of course everyone's mileage varies when it comes to the usefulness of genres. To you "Gothenburg metal" is perfectly fine. On my website I'm trying to limit the introduction of genre with (to me) questionable potential for usefulness to the typical user. A few weeks ago I accepted "psychedelia", but I would not add "swancore". Not adding "funeral doom", since that can be expressed well through a combination of the "funereal" adjective with the existing genre of doom metal.

Some non-descriptive genres of course exist historically and are too big to be ignored. Take "Krautrock" as an example. Sounds nothing like Sauerkraut, it's even highly insensitive and politically incorrect, but it's too established to be changed. Grandfathered in, so to say.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 26 2024 at 02:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 02:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Of course everyone's mileage varies when it comes to the usefulness of genres. To you "Gothenburg metal" is perfectly fine. On my website I'm trying to limit the introduction of genre with (to me) questionable potential for usefulness to the typical user. A few weeks ago I accepted "psychedelia", but I would not add "swancore". Not adding "funeral doom", since that can be expressed well through a combination of the "funereal" adjective with the existing genre of doom metal.

Some non-descriptive genres of course exist historically and are too big to be ignored. Take "Krautrock" as an example. Sounds nothing like Sauerkraut, it's even highly insensitive and politically incorrect, but it's too established to be changed. Grandfathered in, so to say.

"Funeral doom" is a subgenre name that has been around for quite a while. 

As for Krautrock, the name is not confusing, rock from Germany obviously, but the more you look into it, the more confusing it gets... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 05:29
^ One does not need to support everything that "has been around for a while" ... by either accepting or rejecting these labels we all shape language through usage. My "funereal doom" is close enough IMHO. Using descriptors (adjectives) is an alternative way of categorizing music which has the advantage that it is maximally descriptive, with the drawback that it annoys old-school genre enthusiasts LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 05:38
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
What's more ridiculous is when you have no idea what you are looking at and have no idea if it's something you really want to hear or not.
...

Hi,

On a slightly different note on the subject, this was a huge problem in the early days of the Tower Records on the Strip, or Rasputin's in Berkeley ... you walked in into a huge ocean, and ... you immediately lost the ability to figure out where you wanted to start, and what you wanted to get. The sheer number and size of the places was insane.

I kinda feel the same with the huge numbers and choices, but it feels the same. Too much of a good thing!

I think the divisions and sub-divisions are fine, but I do wish that the whole thing was cleaned up a lot better ... like "symphonic" as a good example ... and basically most top progressive, are all "symphonic", not to mention where the keyboard player came from.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2024 at 05:50
^ i agree with that. I love the concept of genres and subgenres but not all albums and artists are defined properly and some genre / subgenre labels can verge on ridiculous!
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