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Is Prog really a genre?
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17497 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 06:19
Hi,

Depends on how we look at it ... but many folks won't even bother to look at music history ... in a line ... where you can compare the changes and improvements over the years. Inside of this "exercise" I would imagine and believe that "progressive" deserves to be there, although my worry is about the other version called "prog" which I still don't understand much, but it seems to suggest more rock than progressive ideas.

In the 60's of last century there was a major shift in jazz ... the same thing happened in rock music when it started picking itself up and getting a little fame (or otherwise ... ) and was then heard by many and appreciated from many angles. But no one, really, gave that "rock music" much credit for anything, and most classic folks deemed it too simple and boring to be considered major music ... and now the problem starts ... the revenge was that the public saw immense sales take off and the classical music sales and discussions hit the toilet ... sadly, no one has been able to describe, properly, what progressive was, and then prog was ... and some ideas were thrown together with paper and scissors to create a most incredibly unmusical definition for the "public" that folks, TODAY, still believe in it, even though every thing mentioned is found everywhere else in music. That would mean that progressive, or prog, has no redeeming factor whatsoever.

And later, it became a copy the sound kind of thing, and after that folks with databases, decided that numbers were important and now you don't even know if the definition and idea for it all, matters at all ... because the numbers are more important, just like the record companies told us many years ago.

I think the prog/progressive idea has merit, but it needs to get out of the hands of database folks and have a cleaner musical definition that even fits on a "staff" of musical history ... right now those definitions don't belong anywhere since it all had happened before, and after. Thus making a definition ridiculous to say the least. I'm not sure this will ever happen since the folks that decided the prog/progressive ideas were not musical folks at all ... they just figured out something "different" about their favorite bands!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Manuel View Drop Down
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Points: 13310 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 05:58
There's a difference between "Prog" and "Progressive" music. Prog music nowadays refers to music that is quite complex, with long pieces, a lot of instrumental parts, sudden changes of tempo, odd meters, etc. Progressive music on the other hand, is the type of music that is mainly written for listening, is quite challenging to both the artist and the listener, innovative, incorporates influences from other genres, such as classical, folk, world, etc. So we could say that, while prog is mostly a genre, progressive is more an approach to writing music. 
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Points: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 04:25
Prog is not a genre in a classic sense. Prog is most close to being a modern folk art. Everything could be found on the folk-art fair, isn't it?
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Note that due to sock puppetry, the posts for the account by.the user who started this topic were all expunged. So the original first post of this topic is gone, as well as others by that user. It’s easier to batch deal with these.

Edited by Logan - February 21 2024 at 04:02
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chopper View Drop Down
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Points: 20029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 03:48
Originally posted by Philibert Philibert wrote:

@chopper

 Oh, okey. Then, there is too wide chasm between …Very 'Eavy …Very 'Umble and Trespass.

I would tend to agree. There is a very wide range of musical styles under the prog umbrella, there's more to it than that - it's all in the musicality, the lyrics/themes, even album covers. It's not a definable musical style such as reggae and is often subjective. Hence why there are so many arguments here about "are such and such prog?".
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Archisorcerus View Drop Down
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No. It is actually a genie.
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 02:45
Obviously it depends on your definition of "genre", but if you interpret it as "style of music", then obviously not. Mike Oldfield and Dream Theater and Zappa do not make music of the same style.
Prog is an approach to creating music, and even in bands so different from each other, you can easily identify similarities in their approach to creating their music.
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chopper View Drop Down
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Points: 20029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 02:44
Originally posted by Philibert Philibert wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ To paraphrase your question: How can bands A and B be in the same genre when there are differences between them? The answer is obvious.
But isn't the chasm between Trespass and Led Zeppelin III too wide!?

Led Zeppelin are not a prog band.
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Deadwing View Drop Down
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Points: 447 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Deadwing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 02:35
Yeah, but genres are more defined by a cultural thing that happened during a time period than anything really related to the sound itself. The "prog" sound was strong as ever in the 80's, but they simply stopped calling it prog lol
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 01:53
^ To paraphrase your question: How can bands A and B be in the same genre when there are differences between them? The answer is obvious.
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Points: 43518 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 01:47
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Philibert, you need to up your trolling game.

Don't encourage him.

(Svetty, is that you?) LOL
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Points: 21134 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2024 at 00:57
"Prog" is not a genre, obviously. Why would you think it is? But "Rock" is, and obviously both Rush, Genesis and many other bands fit into it.

Philibert, you need to up your trolling game.
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Points: 65245 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2024 at 23:58
Basically, no-- "Prog" is a word given to the penchant for rock musicians in the 1970s to be too ambitious for their own good and make some of the most pompous music on the planet.   Great times.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5353 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2024 at 22:34
You can't technically determine if something is prog or not. You gotta feel that. As for Genesis/Rush similarities, they mostly lie in the feel. The rhythms have a certain angularity to them - lots of syncopation, frequent use of 7/8 and other odd meters. Both Genesis and Rush use analog synths, and incorporate the so called "bass pedals" into their arrangements. The thing about prog is that it's a very broad genre that has this sorta continuum. If you take two extreme ends, you won't find much similarities, but the path between those spots is very clearly marked.

If you're familiar enough with a lot, and I mean A LOT of prog rock acts, you're gonna be able to tell what makes progressive rock the genre it is. The human mind has the ability to analyze common concepts between different objects and the more information you process, the more precise and logical your categorizations become. You will eventually start to notice patterns. Just, explore the genre and develop your taste.

Edited by Hrychu - February 20 2024 at 22:44
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