Progressive Indie?

ProgExpo wrote: By the way, Sufjan Stevens has nothing to do with progressive rock. He is an American indie folk-rock artist

That's a perfect way of telling me you haven't got the faintest clue what you're talking about - without telling me. Thank you. 

Saperlipopette! wrote: ProgExpo wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote: ProgExpo wrote: Saperlipopette! wrote:  Family and King Crimson are labeled as both Art Rock and Progressive Rock - everywhere. Maybe in America. In America, art rock and progressive rock have always been synonymous. In Europe, no. But you claim they are two fundamentally different genres.  Of course, because in Europe back then, mainstream and underground music were two fundamentally different things. Using a mainstream/underground divide that makes very little sense

I'm afraid that the distinctions between art rock, which is mainstream rock with an artistic bent, and progressive rock, which is a subgenre of underground music, are too metaphysical for you.

Saperlipopette! wrote: The way I see it Sufjan Stevens is a progressive artist in the truest sense of the word.

The term "progressive" in music should not be taken literally ("in the truest sense of the word") because music does not progress. If the music were to progress, it would mean that it was going somewhere. Any musicologist will tell you that this is not the case.

Progressive rock is just a term that denotes the aggregate state of part of the underground music scene in Europe at the end of the 1960s and the beginning of the 1970s.

By the way, Sufjan Stevens has nothing to do with progressive rock. He is an American indie folk-rock artist.

I prophesy disaster wrote: This is what https://www.allmusic.com says about Van der Graaf Generator:   ********** Van der Graaf Generator   Art rock unit led by Peter Hammill, distinguished for a dynamic range rivaled only by King Crimson and for their surprising influence on British punk.   Active 1960s - 2020s   Formed 1967 in Manchester, England   Genre Pop/Rock   Styles Art Rock, Experimental, Prog-Rock   Group Members Guy Evans, Peter Hammill, Hugh Banton, Nic Potter, David Jackson, Chas Dickie, Chris Judge Smith, Graham Smith, Keith Ellis, Nick Pearn   **********   Note the use of both "Art Rock" and "Prog-Rock" (which I highlighted) to describe this group.

It's OK. We live in a globalised world of multiplied tags now. "All Music" site staff combined tags don't surprise me at all. However, in the seventies, when progressive rock was a current genre, it wasn't the case; then there was one tag for one band. Hence, hardly anybody in Europe labelled Van der Graaf Generator as art rock, i.e., the same as 10cc or Supertramp were labelled back then. Because art rock meant pop-rock with an artistic attitude. But pop-rock also meant non-progressive.

Edited by ProgExpo - February 11 2024 at 02:19

This is what https://www.allmusic.com says about Van der Graaf Generator:

Awesoreno wrote: Yeah, I, too, consider "art rock" to be a wider umbrella that encompasses progressive rock. Prog is a form of art rock.

Not in Europe, and especially not in the 1970s. Progressive rock was strongly connected to counterculture or underground music in its heyday in the early 1970s, whereas art rock was mainstream rock with an artistic approach.

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Lewian wrote: I'm not sure whether I think Sufjan Stevens should be on PA, but he sounds more prog than Indie to me. But this may just be because the Indie genre label is such a mess, I mean, the term "Indie" originally refers to what kind of record label somebody is signed up to, which has no implications for the music whatsoever. According to that logic all prog is indie that isn't on major labels, and that's a lot. What has Sufjan Stevens in common with R.E.M.? Nothing at all.

I'm not sure whether I think Sufjan Stevens should be on PA, but he sounds more prog than Indie to me. But this may just be because the Indie genre label is such a mess, I mean, the term "Indie" originally refers to what kind of record label somebody is signed up to, which has no implications for the music whatsoever. According to that logic all prog is indie that isn't on major labels, and that's a lot. What has Sufjan Stevens in common with R.E.M.? Nothing at all. 

Edited by Lewian - February 10 2024 at 06:16