Does prog have to be complex to be prog?

Hi,

I think that you state that because of its history now ... back then, it was not quite about the complexity or the this and that, but I sincerely doubt it when someone simply states that it was a song ... for the most part, the beginnings of it all was a reaction to pop music and its lack of quality, beyond it being a "hit" ... and I think that a lot of folks wanted to go further with the music beyond just a pop song ... now, go forward 50 years, and the sad thing is that it has become way too much of a pop song, because of the unreal definitions that were created, completely aside from the time and place, and what the music stood for. 

IT WASN'T A POP SONG!

Simplified, in order to speak about it, it might be called a song, but its structure, often shows that a song it isn't.

The other sad thing is how we define "complex" and "complexity" ... it is not the same for everyone ... RW can do a thousand notes in a minute on his right hand, and is considered "progressive" ... and that is not what his music is about at all! He's not even "classical" .... he's more "pop classical" than serious ... otherwise the number of notes on his right hand would not be as important/valuable as the completion of the music itself ... it might be better with half the notes on the right hand! Sound more interesting, instead of showy. And then you get a John McL ... and we get in trouble ...although I think his note excursions were more Eastern music influenced than they were meant to be some kind of rock/jazz styled thing. And then we get into even more trouble ... listening to Miles and he's not complex at all ... but his personal touches and flights make for what a lot of musicians might think is very tough to do ... it's like ... the story in that Jefferson Airplane special ... everyone went in their own direction, and it worked ... it sounded fantastic, though for us fans ... it might be weird, strange and "complex" ... compare this to King Crimson, and pay attention to the film, specially, so you can see that some of the things RF says is NOT, about the complexity of it all, but about how simple it can be made, and seeing BB add crazy and far out touches here and there is a great example ... it is not "complex" ... it's that its use within a different process, would make it seem complex. Compare that to the bit of video with the guy free forming towards the end, and doing a beautiful thing ... which can not be scripted as it would be different every night ... it's complex if you try to break it down, but very simple if you are doing it ... you follow your visual instinct!

This is hard to discuss in a music forum, because "improvisation" shows up in many places in this area that makes it "complex" and chances are that it isn't, but some folks love it and then add stuff to it ... I would suggest Chris Squire was one of those folks ... you might even say he was just having fun, as he describes in a special about some details in his playing ... his ability to explore and goof around with the strings and stuff, help make him special ... and we think of it as complex, because of the context with which it was used ... for his fingers, and taste, Chris made it all seem so simple!