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The most successful modern prog music nation?
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mathman0806 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Whatever happened to Oasis? 


They clearly hit the Wonderwall.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Is the UK just a footnote now? In terms of prog artists they may not be the most numerous but they are certainly the best known and exposed. Consider that Marillion, Porcupine Tree, solo Steven Wilson, IQ et al have had albums out that made various charts in Europe and abroad over the last 20+ years. Recall that the OP's question asks for the most successful.
Where have IQ charted in the last 20+years? Anyway, bringing up IQ and Marillion makes UK appear like a footnote as a modern progmusic nation. But recent bands such as Black Country, New Road and black midi are relatively successful.
This is what happens when people post without doing the research. And probably why some like you think that bands like IQ and Marillion are now footnotes instead of recocnizing them for what they have accomplished. See below and learn:

"The Road of Bones is the eleventh studio album by the British neo-progressive rock band IQ, released on May 3, 2014. It peaked at number 36 in Germany on the Offizielle Deutsche Charts, number 62 in Switzerland on the Swiss Hitparade and number 68 in the Netherlands on the Dutch Charts. It's the first album to feature Neil Durant on keyboards and it marks the return of original members Paul Cook on drums and Tim Esau on bass, the latter's first appearance on an IQ album since 1989."
My arguments was based on you giving examples of UK's "modern relevance" with bands formed in the late 1970's early 1980's. Over four decades ago, way passed their peak era and closer to retirement than a "breakthrough". Looks more like arguing against the point you want to get across rather than for.

-Those chart entries were too low register on wiki btw.
Nonsense, strawman. The OP's question was what is the most successful modern prog music nation?  I answered that question. If you did the same, we would not be having this inane discussion. Btw, those chart entries were taken from wiki!!

Edited by SteveG - January 11 2024 at 05:46
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^ Our inane discussion is a result on your inane take. You might as well had brought up King Crimson and Yes then. They are even more successful. And btw: Italy is the most successful nation for modern oil painting. Because Da Vinci, Raphael, Caravaggio etc... are as popular as ever!
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My take on modern Prog music, which has been defined for this as post 90s music, would include both modern bands/artists, and older band that released music during that time. I thought the USA and sued Swans as an example. It was formed around the same time as IQ in the early 80s, but Swans has been very relevant to modern music releases since 2010 with its revival. And I would say that it has been very artistically successful and has got much acclaim and recognition for its modern albums. If a band is passe, that's another thing. I;m not a fan of IQ, but I recognise its significance within Prog communities. It remains very popular here and its modern releases here get a lot of recognition compared to the vast majority of bands. At a place like RYM, the band Swans is much more popular according to ratings.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ Our inane discussion is a result on your inane take. You might as well had brought up King Crimson and Yes then. They are even more successful. And btw: Italy is the most successful nation for modern oil painting. Because Da Vinci, Raphael, Caravaggio etc... are as popular as ever!
 LOL  That's too funny. I suppose that 'modern' to you means something recorded yesterday and no earlier.

Edited by SteveG - January 11 2024 at 07:08
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Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

This thread has turned to be quite a farce but anyway, I can tell that I haven't seen any better arguments or evidence than to be 
most into pointing at USA as the most successful country for progressive music in the post-1990s.

It was a farce to begin with. Your opening question never established what the criteria for "success" was. That can mean a lot of different things: album sales, sales per capita, number of artists, artists per capita, following, quality of writing/recording, bands happiness with their lot in life, most sexual exploits on tour, etc. This was pointed out on the first page directly and you didn't elaborate other than "good considerations", which said f**kall about your intended criteria. Eventually you made a list that established that you are apparently only talking about album popularity as the criteria for "success", with which you declared USA was evidently the winner. Your list, by the way, points out that on a per capita basis Sweden is about 5 times more productive of popular prog albums and Norway about 10 times more.   

I'd say, this conclusion by Mathman of my approach and posts is more constructive:

Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

That is part of the discussion points for this topic. What does it mean to be successful? How do you measure success?

Plus, one can use more than one criterion and it can be different from person to person which criteria one chooses to use - which all would be very fine by me.

My list was just meant as a contribution to other evidence, and I had considered all the presented arguments and evidence (not much) in my own conclusion.


Edited by David_D - January 11 2024 at 09:57
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Albums released 1991 and onwards with 'QWR' over 4 and then calculated per capita in brackets
Canada -13/ 38.25 mill (0.34)
Denmark - 6/5.857 million (1.02) 
Finland -12/5.54 million (2.16)
France - 40/67.75 million (0.65)
Germany - 13/83.2 million (0.15)
Italy - 40/59.11 million (0.67) 
Japan - 17/125.7 million (0.13)
Netherlands - 4/17.53 million (0.22)
Norway - 25/5.408 million (4.62)
Poland - 7/37.75 million (0.18) 
Russia (boo!) - 11/143.4 million (0.076)
Spain - 8/47.42 million (0.16)
Sweden - 24/10.42 million (2.30)
Ukraine - 3/43.79 million (0.068)
UK - 41/67.73 million (0.60)
USA - 113/331.9 million (0.34)

The numbers have spoken and Scandinavia are the winners!













Edited by richardh - January 11 2024 at 10:28
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^Shocking how low France, Germany and Japan are. So many of my favorites in the last 20 years come from there. Then again, I tend to stray from beaten path on what I enjoy.

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SteveG View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Albums released 1991 and onwards with 'QWR' over 4 and then calculated per capita in brackets
Canada -13/ 38.25 mill (0.34)
Denmark - 6/5.857 million (1.02) 
Finland -12/5.54 million (2.16)
France - 40/67.75 million (0.65)
Germany - 13/83.2 million (0.15)
Italy - 40/59.11 million (0.67) 
Japan - 17/125.7 million (0.13)
Netherlands - 4/17.53 million (0.22)
Norway - 25/5.408 million (4.62)
Poland - 7/37.75 million (0.18) 
Russia (boo!) - 11/143.4 million (0.076)
Spain - 8/47.42 million (0.16)
Sweden - 24/10.42 million (2.30)
Ukraine - 3/43.79 million (0.068)
UK - 41/67.73 million (0.60)
USA - 113/331.9 million (0.34)

The numbers have spoken and Scandinavia are the winners!
Ah, that's cheating. LOL  But I'll gladly concede that the winner is USA based on 113 albums released since 1991, with the UK second at 41.


Edited by SteveG - January 11 2024 at 11:02
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Whatever happened to Oasis? 


They clearly hit the Wonderwall.
Off topic, but that was a strange song for Americans having never seen the Wonderwall movie released in only or pretty much only in the UK.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Albums released 1991 and onwards with 'QWR' over 4 and then calculated per capita in brackets
Canada -13/ 38.25 mill (0.34)
Denmark - 6/5.857 million (1.02) 
Finland -12/5.54 million (2.16)
France - 40/67.75 million (0.65)
Germany - 13/83.2 million (0.15)
Italy - 40/59.11 million (0.67) 
Japan - 17/125.7 million (0.13)
Netherlands - 4/17.53 million (0.22)
Norway - 25/5.408 million (4.62)
Poland - 7/37.75 million (0.18) 
Russia (boo!) - 11/143.4 million (0.076)
Spain - 8/47.42 million (0.16)
Sweden - 24/10.42 million (2.30)
Ukraine - 3/43.79 million (0.068)
UK - 41/67.73 million (0.60)
USA - 113/331.9 million (0.34)

The numbers have spoken and Scandinavia are the winners!


Really nice work, well done! Clap
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Albums released 1991 and onwards with 'QWR' over 4 and then calculated per capita in brackets
Canada -13/ 38.25 mill (0.34)
Denmark - 6/5.857 million (1.02) 
Finland -12/5.54 million (2.16)
France - 40/67.75 million (0.65)
Germany - 13/83.2 million (0.15)
Italy - 40/59.11 million (0.67) 
Japan - 17/125.7 million (0.13)
Netherlands - 4/17.53 million (0.22)
Norway - 25/5.408 million (4.62)
Poland - 7/37.75 million (0.18) 
Russia (boo!) - 11/143.4 million (0.076)
Spain - 8/47.42 million (0.16)
Sweden - 24/10.42 million (2.30)
Ukraine - 3/43.79 million (0.068)
UK - 41/67.73 million (0.60)
USA - 113/331.9 million (0.34)

The numbers have spoken and Scandinavia are the winners!


Really nice work, well done! Clap
It is pretty slick, but I don't think that Scandinavia is considered to be a nation. LOL

Edited by SteveG - January 11 2024 at 11:16
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No but the top four per capita are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. I wonder if there is a collective name for those countries?
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

No but the top four per capita are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. I wonder if there is a collective name for those countries?
That's a smart retort but your post and Richard's has nothing to do with the topic, which is the most successful modern prog nation, not the most proficient, or the most per capita, as the case may be. Btw, I think that Europe probably has Scandinavia beat.

Edited by SteveG - January 11 2024 at 12:26
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I have to say that I don't find the per-capita perspective very interesting, but more the significance of the various national scenes 
and the changes which have happened since the 1970s.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

No but the top four per capita are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. I wonder if there is a collective name for those countries?
That's a smart retort but your post and Richard's has nothing to do with the topic, which is the most successful modern prog nation, not the most proficient, or the most per capita, as the case may be. Btw, I think that Europe probably has Scandinavia beat.



It does relate to the topic because among the many discussions are what does it mean to be successful and how do you measure success. So, some suggested output and the quantity. Others suggested scaling by population or per capita to even out a country like the U.S. with countries that have a smaller population. There is no right answer here. Sales and now ratings are under consideration. Whether it is meaningful to scale by population is debatable.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I have to say that I don't find the per-capita perspective very interesting, but more the significance of the various national scenes 
and the changes which have happened since the 1970s.
Of course. Instead being fan boys of certain prog from certain countries, it's more interesting to talk about their developments and trajectories. The most interesting to me is actually how prog developed in countries like Norway and Sweden. It's some of the best prog around.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I have to say that I don't find the per-capita perspective very interesting, but more the significance of the various national scenes 
and the changes which have happened since the 1970s.
Of course. Instead being fan boys of certain prog from certain countries, it's more interesting to talk about their developments and trajectories. The most interesting to me is actually how prog developed in countries like Norway and Sweden. It's some of the best prog around.
Progressive music has a tradition in the Nordic countries. Bo Hansson,Terje Rypdal, and Wigwam, to name a few.
As was the case with Poland almost a decade ago, which was not even brought up on this thread, like if Riverside had been forgotten, Norway is now championed by mostly U.S. proggers. With Norway, hopefully, that won't be the case to be forgotten in a few years.
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Originally posted by Blazar Blazar wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I have to say that I don't find the per-capita perspective very interesting, but more the significance of the various national scenes 
and the changes which have happened since the 1970s.
Of course. Instead being fan boys of certain prog from certain countries, it's more interesting to talk about their developments and trajectories. The most interesting to me is actually how prog developed in countries like Norway and Sweden. It's some of the best prog around.
Progressive music has a tradition in the Nordic countries. Bo Hansson,Terje Rypdal, and Wigwam, to name a few.<br style="color: #252525;">As was the case with Poland almost a decade ago, which was not even brought up on this thread, like if Riverside had been forgotten, Norway is now championed by mostly U.S. proggers. With Norway, hopefully, that won't be the case to be forgotten in a few years.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I have to say that I don't find the per-capita perspective very interesting, but more the significance of the various national scenes 
and the changes which have happened since the 1970s.

It was obviously a bit tongue in cheek on my part but then you didn't actually ask specify an criteria in your thread title.

My take on things

Sweden and then latterly Norway very much lead the traditional prog revival but then there has also been the likes of Opeth and Anekdoten and a thriving metal scene to call on.
USA is probably more all over the place but perhaps a mix of metal and fusion. The fusion scene is very much USA's thing as much as Symphonic Prog is Europe's thing. Even bands like Echolyn are much heavier than say The Flower Kings, so USA has become the home of a variety of a more heavier variety of symph.
UK is a more neo prog nation, likes its traditions but then there are the up and coming new kids on the block like Black Midi and New Country, Black Road which recalls a punk side of the UK scene.
France is maybe more art based but I'm not familar enough with their prog scene. Do they even do metal?!
Italy seemingly has not changed that much, it's traditions and culture very much set in classical music, but again I'm not that familiar with everything going on.
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