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Why aren't The Flaming Lips on prog archives?
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11566 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2024 at 11:21
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Why is it all about YOU?
I don't think anything is about me, except my own opinions. 
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Believe it or not, everyone is not aware of RYM.
You brought RYM into this discussion. I didn't
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I heard you loud and clear and i disagree with you.
But you can't disagree if you don't know what you are discussing. You're opinion is invalid.
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It's all getting a bit unnecessarily heated so I have an idea. How about they just get added to the database :) There is clearly A LOT of support for them being here. Crossover, related or whatever label is most appropriate. 
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I may be missing context, but the quoting plus code appears a little muddled, but just a point, while what is deemed Krautrock from Germany may not be considered Prog, when its listed as an element in terms of style/genre and/or influence for (thinking particularly about ones not in Germany), I don't know of cases where that does not refer to the kinds of music we consider Krautrock at PA. Bands like Can, Neu!, Harmonia, Cluster, Kraftwerk, Faust....

Non-German bands that often get the Kraut label (either partially or primarily) but aren't progressive include Portishead, Stereolab, The Oscillation, The Dwarfs of East Agouza, Gnod, Föllakzoid, Nisennenmondai, Gnoomes, Eternal Tapestry, Soccer96, Cave, 10 000 Russos, Death In Vegas, Lüger, 退格 Backspace, Jacco Gardner, Zombie Zombie, K-X-P, Les Big Byrd, Turzi, LNZNDRF, Moon Relay, Pharaoh Overlord, Dvanov, Kungens män, Karstof, Veik, Hyperculte, Flowers Must Die, Flaurel, Sei Still, Brokenchord etc.

I could go on with hundreds of more artists. Why are these artists NOT progressive? Because they utilize basic electronic dance music, punk, pop and other non-prog genres such as country as the main musical flavor and then they embellish it with secondary sound effects that are inspired by 70s German Krautrock. I could add hundreds of post-punk bands from the 70s on that alone simply added kraut aspects to punk and called it post-punk. It has been long established on this site that post-punk that simply adds kraut ingredients isn't progressive enough to be on this site. The music itself that forms the basis HAS to be progressive as in the case of Cardiacs.

In fact i know very few outside of this site who would even consider Can, Neu! or Faust to be prog. They are more often thought of as experimental rock. Progressive Kraut would be Amon Duul II, Kraan, Popol Vuh, Between etc. But because they were an essential part of the original scene i'm OK with them here but i don't extend that sentiment to newer bands.

As for an album with the primary tags of neo-psychedelia, experimental rock, experimental, post-rock and secondary tags being krautrock, ambient, noise rock, jam band, spoken word, noise, drone, post-rock, electronic, space rock revival, psychedelic rock, not only does that scream that I should listen to the album based on my interests, but that it might well be considerable for Prog Archives addition.

Definitely worth investigating but it's a case by case basis. I tend to reject bands that are primarily pop or monotonous droning with absolutely nothing else going on. The category wasn't designed to be comprehensive. It was designed to highlight the 70s German scene and extremely worthy candidates that followed.

We have two yes votes for the Flaming Lips in Prog Related now, by the way.

That's where i see them fitting in best here but crossover would work for me too.
If this was a paid gig i'd certainly check out the six hour EP that everyone loves so much.

Reactions to The Flaming Lips have been kind of weird and I think quite ignorant since I have seen at the time of Embryonic being released that The Flaming Lips has "nothing" to do with Prog. Nothing? Really? No relations whatsoever?

That's actually my favorite album by the F.L. It definitely has minor prog creds but it is still based in a neo-psychedelia / noise pop song structure.

Neo-psychedelia is applied to tons of pop bands with psychedelic overtones such as Ween, Animal Collective, Spiritualized, XTC, Panda Bear, Tame Impala, Beach House, MGMT, of Montreal, Beck, Deerhunter, Mazzy Star etc. The term alone says nothing about the main musical ingredients but rather the frosting that is applied to an already baked cake.

Many of these bands i love the hell outa but do i want them to be on PA? Hell no!

Bands like Mercury Rev who are here actually have prog elements including post-rock. And yes i like M.R. too!

There is a murky middle ground where pop slowly cedes into prog. Where any particular person draws the line is subjective.

There are many bands that fall into this arena. The Grateful Dead has been mentioned many times. I vote we are a bit conservative in the PSIKE world and limit newer candidates to either obvious prog or clear and irrefutable connections to the farthest out trips of the original 70s German scene.

PS Mercury Rev is cool.
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The Flaming Lips now have the requisite 3 yes votes from the admins so will be added to the database under Prog Related.
Ian

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Points: 15239 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2024 at 17:21
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Flaming Lips now have the requisite 3 yes votes from the admins so will be added to the database under Prog Related.

ClapClapClap

Well that solves that debate.

Case closed and welcome to the Lips!!!




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Points: 35 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scouser14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2024 at 17:40
Yeaaaah!!! :) What a great start to 2024! 'Do you realize' how happy you've made me? ;)
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Points: 35683 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2024 at 18:43
Awesome!

Re Krautrock: I mean that whether the bands that are influenced by Krautrock are on the progressive rock (or progressive pop) spectrum or not, I mean that when one sees it as a label for non-German bands, it usually refers to an influence of music that is considered both Krautrock and Progressive Rock by PA category standards. For PA purposes, I do consider Can Krautrock even if it does not fit a traditional idea of Prog. I tend to judge music for PA by the category parameters, the definitions, and what is already included. Whether I personally consider, say, Kraftwerk or Neu! to be "true prog" is not even of interest to me.

Krautrock represented by bands like Can, Neu!, Harmonia, Cluster, Kraftwerk etc. has indeed influenced much indie and post-punk. And for me a lot of that music would fall under my greater prog umbrella, which includes related (but I often regret using the prog term because that itself can be a can of worms and is such a nebulous label and amorphous label commonly, and related could include anything depending on how close or distant the relation, in a sense). It is very subjective and a lot of it depends on the associations that the individual makes.
Different people commonly have different parameters and expectations for genres, and that's fine by me.

Edited by Logan - January 03 2024 at 18:44
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Flaming Lips now have the requisite 3 yes votes from the admins so will be added to the database under Prog Related.


What a lovely surprise, Ian. I'll help with their discography.
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Points: 261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bartymj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2024 at 01:37
Well, this is hilarious. I suggested The Flaming Lips I think in about 2021, off the back of their latest couple of albums being fairly progressive (2019-2020).

I was immediately told no, and the thread closed, on the basis that they had already been reviewed many years prior, i.e. before these albums were released.

Nice to see on a different day the random pot luck of an admin works in our favour ;-)
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Fight Test:- The first Flaming Lips song I ever heard and still an all-time favourite Beatlesque song. Thumbs Up
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Any ETA on their addition? I'm curious who's taking care of the biography.
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I don't think there's any ETA. I'm no expert on the band but I like various albums by the band and would be willing to help, but would rather not until next month. Any special collab can add it, and any member can help, including adding the albums. I figure it's no hurry, it's been out for all these years. It is a big add and having various people working on different aspects of it might be really helpful and we would want to do it right. While I have added a few bands recently, I'm kind of rusty on it. I need to find a faster way to add albums too. One member had made a program to help with that. That alone sometimes takes me a ridiculously long time. Of course one can do that over time.

Edited by Logan - January 10 2024 at 22:08
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Wow… rejected in 2006, 2007,2009 and 2010. Not even brought to the vote in 2014. 
Surprising addition.
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^

Good to see you still around, Angelo. Been ages since I last communicated with you.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Flaming Lips now have the requisite 3 yes votes from the admins so will be added to the database under Prog Related.


I'm copasetic with that. Wink
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Flaming Lips now have the requisite 3 yes votes from the admins so will be added to the database under Prog Related.


I'm copasetic with that. Wink
Meanwhile, the rest of us are getting our dictionaries out. Tongue
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Originally posted by scouser14 scouser14 wrote:

With albums like Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots (especially) and their 2020 album 'American Head' - not to mention an entire reworking of Dark Side Of The Moon, surely the band deserve the honour of being listed in prog archives? They're brilliantly creative and I would suggest many of their tracks are prog/psych - or at the very least prog related.

Thoughts? 

Why isn't Hunter S Thompson considered a children's book author?

Nice The Prisoner reference in your status, by the way!
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We still need one of the advocates for The Flaming Lips to step up and provide a bio and band shot. I'll happily add them if I get the requisite information.
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'Cause they are flaming lips, not progressive tongues.
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Flaming Lips...yeah, sure. Why not? Not a fan of their version of DSotM, but they didn't muck it up any worse than Roger Waters did.
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