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does anyone here fw Rock In Opposition/Avant-Prog?

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Lumenko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lumenko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2023 at 23:11
Those who prefer the folkier side of the RIO/Avant genre, i.e., bands such as Etron Fou Leloublan or Zamla Mammaz Manna, should have a great time with the former Yugoslav band Begnagrad and their eponymous album from 1982. Begnagrad's sound is characterised in the booklet of the Mio Records 2003 remastered CD edition as "Euro-folk avant-rock." That highly recommended release includes four bonus tracks, and its enhanced section has a 20-minute film clip of the band's 1983 concert held at an open-air festival in the former Yugoslav Socialistic Republic of Slovenia, where they actually came from.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2023 at 02:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Pretty much my go to genre

I wouldn't say it was my go-to, but at one point, I was really into exploring much of it: thankfully my library system (now nearly defunct) had loads of those artistes in their catalogues.  I think that at one point, I kind of overdosed  on avant/rock/prog bands and sort of jumped off the train, and haven't found the wish to jump back on it since.  Much of what I explored has been reviewed by me on PA, and I'm not sure that I would agree nowadays with what I wrote back then, should I relisten to those albums.

BTW, I tend to think that the PA's RIO/Avant genre is kind-of polluted by the presence of Zappa in it. Fairly few Zappa album are actually avant proper albums, especially those topping the PA Top list (Hot Rats, Wazoo, etc.)

Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

I greatly enjoy the music of Art Zoyd and Univers Zero. The first Far Corner album is great and I Love Miriodor. I find Julverne fascinating.

Today, I can still spin some: 
Akinaton Ritard,
Aksak (early stuff)
Aquaserge
Alamaailman
DAAU (their latest is on ly list for 2023)
Aranis
Art Bears & Zoyd
Lindsey Cooper 
Debile Menthol/Ensemble Rayé/Nimal
Etron Fou
Far corner
Finnegan's Wake
Fire! (their latest is on my top list)
Henry Cow (and associated)
Koyry Kone
Infonie
Interference Sardine
Miriodor
Rouge Ciel
Justine/Klaxon Gueule/Wondeur G-Brass
Massacre
Zorn (the Masada stuff mainly)
Muffins
News From Babel
Panzerpappa
Plastic People
Univers Zero & Présent (most likely their respective latest will get lots of spins)
Samla MM (& further stuff)
Stormy Six
Stephen Thelen
Vortex
... and a few more

but TBH, the spins have become scarcer in recent years 








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2023 at 19:41
Yes, I frolic wildly to RIO/ Avant Prog. The most important RIO band has been Art Zoyd to me, but I also find Univers Zero and Henry Cow especially to be very fan worthy. And lots I love in Avant-Prog generally. It, along with Krautrock, Zeuhl, Post-Rock and various others like acid folk and Canterbury Scene, and quite a bit of JRF, is one of my particular favourite categories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 09:03
Not as obsessively as I once did:) - all those Kerman projects I just don't listen to anymore. 

But I still love and listen to: The Residents (1972-1983), Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Non Credo, Lard Free, Hellebore, After Dinner, Guapo, Dün, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Secret Chiefs 3, Aksak Maboul, Wha-Ha-Ha ... oh and Henry Cow of course...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 09:14
For what it's worth, I dg r/a.Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 09:17
...and
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Vortex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duchamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 20:56
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Not as obsessively as I once did:) - all those Kerman projects I just don't listen to anymore. 

But I still love and listen to: The Residents (1972-1983), Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Non Credo, Lard Free, Hellebore, After Dinner, Guapo, Dün, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Secret Chiefs 3, Aksak Maboul, Wha-Ha-Ha ... oh and Henry Cow of course...
would the residents be considered prog?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:41
Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Not as obsessively as I once did:) - all those Kerman projects I just don't listen to anymore. 

But I still love and listen to: The Residents (1972-1983), Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Non Credo, Lard Free, Hellebore, After Dinner, Guapo, Dün, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Secret Chiefs 3, Aksak Maboul, Wha-Ha-Ha ... oh and Henry Cow of course...
would the residents be considered prog?
Kind of yes. Not in the same sense as King Crimson and Genesis are considered Prog. But they are here on PA in the RIO/Avant-section, which feels like a natural place for them imo.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 14 2024 at 21:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:42
i fw ap amap

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Edited by siLLy puPPy - January 12 2024 at 15:43

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:54
I’m much less than into it than I used to be, but I still enjoy some old favorites occasionally. Just listened to a Lindsay Cooper album today in fact (Rags/Golddiggers). Always love hearing Fred Frith, Henry Cow, Art Bears, Skeleton Crew, Etron Fou, Thinking Plague, and of course early Zappa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lofty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2024 at 05:21

Perhaps a stupid question here....Can anyone tell me what the divide is between RIO and avant garde is? Is there something stylistic? Does it come down to the lyrical content? Perhaps the political approach to the subject matter? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2024 at 06:49
Check the genre page, RIO are the original 5 bands who got together in the 70s to support each other and run a series of Festivals. Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Samla Mammas Manna, Stormy Six, Etron Fou Leloublan. Stylistically quite different, it was about shared aims and support. They subsequently elected Art Zoyd, Art Bears and Aksak Maboul to the organization.

Avant is more a genre description for bands playing a broad style of experimental, dissonant, rehearsal intensive rock music over the last 60 years.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 14 2024 at 06:49
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2024 at 16:15
Probably the only album in the RIO/Avant category I am familiar with and enjoy is Far Corner - Risk.
All Traps On Earth - A Drop Of Light is often sited as an album with RIO/Avant influences although they officially under Symphonic. Both albums are great. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PrograhamLincoln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2024 at 17:17
So what does the OP say it stands for, since he used it?

And MikeEnRegalia, thank you for asking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duchamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 03:10
Originally posted by PrograhamLincoln PrograhamLincoln wrote:

So what does the OP say it stands for, since he used it?

And MikeEnRegalia, thank you for asking!

f//ck with
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dapper~Blueberries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2024 at 20:13
RIO/Avant prog can definitely go hard. Especially groups like Univers Zero, Cardiacs, and Kayo Dot. Just gotta love prog that goes weird.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2024 at 04:13
RIO/Avant was my big “discovery” a year or two ago. While going through a lot of the more common genres like prog metal, neo, symph, crossover etc., I occasionally had a go at a RIO/Avant album, but for years it never clicked. When it finally did I was in love. There’s so much variety in bands put in those genres, I rarely put on something new and think “Oh, this sounds exactly like this bunch of bands”, which is how a lot of neo feels today.

I have listened to a lot of the old albums, but I’m even more excited about new music. There’s so much interesting stuff being made out there.

It can be hard, weird, soft, whatever you want it’s out there. The experimental nature and often avoiding the typical build of a song: intro, verse, chorus, verse etc. is very refreshing. It’s strange how in an overwhelming amount of music it’s become an unwritten rule that the music is made in that format. Bands and artists also make use of instruments not so commonly found in most music. There’s another rule that perhaps has been ignored more in recent years. That a band should consist of drums, guitar, bass, vocals, maybe keys. I recently discovered Jaimie Branch, a fantastic trumpeter and composer (who sadly passed in 2022), where the trumpet is one of the main instruments used. Or the band SOT, mostly consisting of tuba, guitar and drums.

I don’t care in principle about listening to music that can’t be considered progressive, but in a lot entertainment (music, TV, movies, boosk), I always look for something new and different. If there is a genre where artists truly live up the monkier “progressive”, it’s RIO/Avant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2024 at 05:16
I'm very much into experimental music and I love quite a bit of Avant/RIO. Art Zoyd and Cardiacs are among my favourite bands ever. That said there is some music in that genre I can't relate with. Music needs to resonate with me emotionally, and although some emotion is on the dark side (and I love some music expressing it), I occasionally find some material overly harsh and unwelcoming, or I suspect complexity for complexity's sake, at which point I disconnect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2024 at 09:35
Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

i know that most people here are leaning towards symphonic prog n AOR type music when it comes to prog but i've been getting back in2 prog n RIO/Avant-Prog has always been my fav type of prog. my fav bands from the RIO Circuit are Henry Cow (n also their equally dope offshoot Art Bears), Samla Mammas Manna n Etron Fou Leloublan.

Hi,

If everything was the same, and sounded the same, I doubt that the more adventurous works would have a good/great chance at getting further and gaining some acceptance. 

A lot of the stuff that you mention, came up at a time that had a lot of adventurous artists in many disciplines and in my book, these kinda helped everyone do something different and special. Nowadays, this is very different, as you might hear something very different and completely crazy (in our words), but it only gets one comment and completely disregarded by the majority of the folks that post ... which suggests they likely do not listen to it, or might just pick and peck a little and they find what they hear not to their tastes. Not enough growl. Not enough rap. Not enough guitar screeching. Not enough high school drumming. Or worse ... talcum powder keyboards!

It is hard for many bands/folks to do something different. They need to have a strong internal constitution, and more often than not a support system of friends that help keep it alive ... and that is how "Rio" and "avant" got going ... however, let's not think that the arts never had folks being contrary and different ... there has always been a patch of these everywhere.

I tend to think that the main issue with a lot of these, is that the wording for describing these things are not there ... and the conventional words use to review things, do not help and often make a mess of comments, that in my book, hurt the music, or the art.

This was the case in the 70's ... don't think it was different now ... with one exception ... we have the ability to hear the history ... 50 years worth ... and now we have a better idea and all of a sudden things like PoiL - Poil Ueda {ap:55644} ... don't seem so far off ... and are enjoyable and far out in the same breadth,

I just think we need more of that kind of stuff ... somehow the older I get the formatted conventional music just is not interesting anymore ... it has no soul in it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2024 at 15:57
PoiL is a really good call, you want to check out modern avant just run a top album chart using that sub-genre for recent years. Personal recommendation, black midi, modern young band really pushing the envelope
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